WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users

[Bluspacecow]

Originally Posted by Donnaterassi Just keep doing what you're doing. I am sure that this new generation of gold buying, node stealing, noob ganking players will remain loyal to you when they have to visit 112 separate site and down load 112 files and unzip 112 separate files and remove/replace 112 folders. I know I will. Um. Not.

Welcome to the discussion

You might want to read Seerah's post at

http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...&postcount=108

She says it far better than I can.

I would also like to point out that those 112 addon folders you mention ? They don't update every day. Once they are stable and working for you you should only need to update for major changes.

And not every one of those 112 addon folders will get update everyday.

Here's a real world example for you

There is 193 folders in my addons folder. Taking out mulitpart part addons that makes 160 I'm keeping track of regularly. Yes I count all the DBM and Auctioneer ones as 2 addons because well I download 2 zips. DBM unzips to 18 addon folders but gets downloaded in 1 zip. Thusly I treat it as 1 addon not 18 in my "this is how many addons I use count"

I get around 22 emails in around a week to 10 days about those 160 addons. It takes me 8 - 12 minutes to scan through them all , load up 6 or 7 pages in a tabbed browser and download maybe 4.

And even then. Once week is still too often. I could reasonably only update every 2 weeks or even once per month. I only do it each week because I actually enjoy seeing what's changed and how often the authors of my addons submit changes.

Once again. My UI is stable. Not blowing chuncks everywhere or coming with weird or arcane messages. This is why I can leave it for a month to update - if I wait for a month to update and my UI is perfectly stable it's not going to cause any problems.

Of course there is a collorary to my statement here. What if one of my addons breaks or causes a problem for me ? Well in that case I'll be doing my level best to get it working for me. It can start with a bug addon report and can possibly end with me turfing that addon for good. And even if I spend a few hours trying to get it working I only have to do it once. Then it's back to my usaul schedule of updating once per week

[lenne]

It is sad that because of wowinterface and curse cannot compete in user-interface that it must lock out wowmatrix

Wowinterface and curse complain about high bandwith usage.

What is needed then, is a peer2peer-client to help distribute the load.

It would be good if this peer2peer client also could be set up to peer in localnet; I have 4 machines for the wow-playing family.

It would be nice if I could set up the client to share add-ons and even better wow-patches, so I don't have to download everything 4 times. Yes, I know I could move manually, but it's not convenient.

[Tekkub]

Originally Posted by lenne It would be good if this peer2peer client also could be set up to peer in localnet; I have 4 machines for the wow-playing family. It would be nice if I could set up the client to share add-ons and even better wow-patches, so I don't have to download everything 4 times. Yes, I know I could move manually, but it's not convenient.

Use uTorrent to download your patches, there are always torrent links up on wowwiki's patch mirrors page. If you use it on each local computer and set them up correctly (not sure how the defaults are), uTorrent will look for local downloaders and give them higher priority and bandwidth. So *ideally* you'll only have to download a single copy the patch across all your computers and they'll share amongst themselves.

Bittorrent was looked at a bit for the bandwidth issue, but being that addon files are generally so small it didn't have much benefit. BT's designed for large files, and that's where it shines.

[g5pwnage]

Originally Posted by Cairenn Recently WoWInterface and Curse got together to come up with a solution for an ongoing problem. The problem in question is WowMatrix. The reasons they are a problem are many: WowMatrix violates author copyright and intellectual property rights: They redistribute addons without authors' permissions; When they first started they would scrape the legimate sites for addons then upload them to their own site in addition to deep-linking from the sites; They edited authors' files to remove donation requests and links to their home sites, etc.; and They have failed on many occasions to honour authors' requests to remove addons from their application; In a lot of cases the files served to users have been many versions out of date. This leads to authors having users complain about bugs, bugs that were fixed days or weeks ago in versions that are available on the legitimate sites, causing problems for both the authors and for the end-users; Until the community raised a hue and cry, Wowmatrix didn't even supply the authors' names as to who wrote the addon, let alone provide a link to where the addon was legitimately hosted; WowMatrix leeches from the legitimate hosting sites without permission, let alone compensation. Originally, they scraped our sites so they could upload addons to their own site without permission, in addition to deep-linking from our sites. They have finally stopped hosting the addons on their own site, but they still deep-link from our sites, using our resources to run their program. WowInterface and Curse use a lot of bandwidth every month which costs a lot of money. The way we pay our bills is through site ads, which are directly dependent on users viewing them, and premium memberships. WowMatrix bypasses our download pages, and, as a result, people are not viewing the ads. Of course, this means the ads aren't generating any revenue to pay for the bandwidth. At the rate they were going, if they were allowed to continue using our resources without any compensation, they were going to drive us right out of business. Not only are they stealing our bandwidth and preventing us from being able to recoup that loss, they also have their own ads all over their site and application. They are directly profiting from the stolen bandwidth; and Due to the massive resource drains they put on our sites, we have all experienced heightened loads and weaker performance, especially on patch days. During those days they download so much from our sites that sometimes we have a hard time keeping up to the demands; thus causing legitimate users to experience problems accessing our sites. That's just flat out unacceptable. For months now, both sites and multiple authors have been trying to come up with solutions to the problems caused by WowMatrix. However, WowMatrix just keeps ignoring authors' requests to remove their addons from their application, working around the protections we have put in place, and proving repeatedly that they have no intention of ever becoming responsible, legitimate members of the community. Instead, they choose to continue to leech off the community. Well we, WoWInterface and Curse, have gotten together and between us we believe we may have found a solution to prevent them from pulling authors' addons from our sites to redistribute without permission and stealing our bandwidth any longer. Unfortunately we cannot release details on the solution, so as to keep it viable. "Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah, get to the important question: What does this mean for me, your sites' user?" For the majority of users it should be completely transparent, you should not notice any difference whatsoever, other than improved site responsiveness during patch days. We hope that we will be able to revert the changes made to our sites eventually, if Wowmatrix ever stops violating authors' copyright and ceases stealing our bandwidth and other resources. If you were previously using WowMatrix to keep your addons updated, please use our official updaters (WoWInterface, Curse). You may also mark addons as favorites on both WoWInterface and Curse in order to be alerted when they are updated. Cairenn Administrator, WoWInterface Kaelten Administrator, Curse & WowAce [Note] If you are having any problems with being able to access files now, please post in this thread with details as to what OS you are running, what browser you are using, etc.

First: there's an old adage in the computer security community, and it goes something like this: "Security by obscurity is no security at all". The fact that you hide your methods must mean you think they aren't very strong.

Okay, so maybe that's not the best way to deal with it, but the reason people use WoWMatrix is becuase it is a lightweight way to keep track of addons, WITHOUT having to open a site, and WITHOUT having to install anything. It is completely portable, and uses NO resources when you don't have it open.

Now, before you start ranting and telling me that "Curse's addon manager does the same thing!" It doesn't. It runs in the background, is a MASSIVE resource hog, and I would consider it a form of spyware. It also will not go through your interface folder searching for addons you have already installed, unlike WoWMatrix.

Why don't you learn something from the WoWMatrix authors, maybe uncompile their program and reverse engineer one of your own, or, better yet, take these suggestions and MAKE one better! You have a much better selection of addons, and combine your database with Curse's, with a full featured downloader to boot, and you will be a force to be reckoned with.

So, instead of complaining that "WoWMatrix 'steals' your bandwidth" (so does every other user who downloads from your site by the way), DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT...

My two cents...

Yours etc,

William J. Knickerbocker III, Esq.


P. S. I am registered on curse, and have been since '06, I don't use this site often.

[MidgetMage55]

Originally Posted by g5pwnage First: there's an old adage in the computer security community, and it goes something like this: "Security by obscurity is no security at all". The fact that you hide your methods must mean you think they aren't very strong. Okay, so maybe that's not the best way to deal with it, but the reason people use WoWMatrix is becuase it is a lightweight way to keep track of addons, WITHOUT having to open a site, and WITHOUT having to install anything. It is completely portable, and uses NO resources when you don't have it open. Now, before you start ranting and telling me that "Curse's addon manager does the same thing!" It doesn't. It runs in the background, is a MASSIVE resource hog, and I would consider it a form of spyware. It also will not go through your interface folder searching for addons you have already installed, unlike WoWMatrix. Why don't you learn something from the WoWMatrix authors, maybe uncompile their program and reverse engineer one of your own, or, better yet, take these suggestions and MAKE one better! You have a much better selection of addons, and combine your database with Curse's, with a full featured downloader to boot, and you will be a force to be reckoned with. So, instead of complaining that "WoWMatrix 'steals' your bandwidth" (so does every other user who downloads from your site by the way), DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT... My two cents... Yours etc, William J. Knickerbocker III, Esq. P. S. I am registered on curse, and have been since '06, I don't use this site often.

They are building a better one. Its been posted about many many times in this thread. There is also a specific category recently created about MMOUI Minion (the name of the updater) in the forums. Feel free to check it out.

Users aren't 'stealing' bandwidth when they visit the site since ad impressions are generated when they actually visit which are used to cover those costs. Its symbiotic. Visitors to the site are able to download addons and their visiting helps pay the costs. WM uses the bandwidth but its costs aren't covered since people never actually come to the site and are therefore 'stealing' bandwidth.

All of which has been stated many times in this thread which it appears you didn't bother to read much of. Feel free to catch up on the reading and join the discussion armed with the info within it.

[Hic]

Originally Posted by g5pwnage First: there's an old adage in the computer security community, and it goes something like this: "Security by obscurity is no security at all". The fact that you hide your methods must mean you think they aren't very strong. Okay, so maybe that's not the best way to deal with it, but the reason people use WoWMatrix is becuase it is a lightweight way to keep track of addons, WITHOUT having to open a site, and WITHOUT having to install anything. It is completely portable, and uses NO resources when you don't have it open. Now, before you start ranting and telling me that "Curse's addon manager does the same thing!" It doesn't. It runs in the background, is a MASSIVE resource hog, and I would consider it a form of spyware. It also will not go through your interface folder searching for addons you have already installed, unlike WoWMatrix. Why don't you learn something from the WoWMatrix authors, maybe uncompile their program and reverse engineer one of your own, or, better yet, take these suggestions and MAKE one better! You have a much better selection of addons, and combine your database with Curse's, with a full featured downloader to boot, and you will be a force to be reckoned with. So, instead of complaining that "WoWMatrix 'steals' your bandwidth" (so does every other user who downloads from your site by the way), DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT... My two cents... Yours etc, William J. Knickerbocker III, Esq. P. S. I am registered on curse, and have been since '06, I don't use this site often.

As I said before, robing a bank it's also an easier way to get money than working. Why don't you do it? Why don't you complain because banks have hidden alarm switches and whatnot?

Just because WM it's an easier way for you, doesn't mean it is "clean".

[Seerah]

Just like most programs that would like to run on start-up if you let them, the Curse Client has an option to disable that. The Curse Client is also a completely different animal currently than the version I am assuming you tested (because you describe the old one).

And, yes. Feel free to read up on our updater client. The old one still works, too!

[Nov]

Originally Posted by g5pwnage First: there's an old adage in the computer security community, and it goes something like this: "Security by obscurity is no security at all". The fact that you hide your methods must mean you think they aren't very strong. Okay, so maybe that's not the best way to deal with it, but the reason people use WoWMatrix is becuase it is a lightweight way to keep track of addons, WITHOUT having to open a site, and WITHOUT having to install anything. It is completely portable, and uses NO resources when you don't have it open. Now, before you start ranting and telling me that "Curse's addon manager does the same thing!" It doesn't. It runs in the background, is a MASSIVE resource hog, and I would consider it a form of spyware. It also will not go through your interface folder searching for addons you have already installed, unlike WoWMatrix. Why don't you learn something from the WoWMatrix authors, maybe uncompile their program and reverse engineer one of your own, or, better yet, take these suggestions and MAKE one better! You have a much better selection of addons, and combine your database with Curse's, with a full featured downloader to boot, and you will be a force to be reckoned with. So, instead of complaining that "WoWMatrix 'steals' your bandwidth" (so does every other user who downloads from your site by the way), DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT... My two cents... Yours etc, William J. Knickerbocker III, Esq. P. S. I am registered on curse, and have been since '06, I don't use this site often.

I agree. I hope WoWInterface and Curse will working on something better (and REALLY better) than the updaters you're providing at this time.

[Bouvi]

Originally Posted by Nov I agree. I hope WoWInterface and Curse will working on something better (and REALLY better) than the updaters you're providing at this time.

Is anyone reading anything? Numerous times it has been stated that WoWi is working on a new updater. 4 Posts above this one and 1 under what you quoted was the last time it was mentioned.

[Zyonin]

Originally Posted by Nov I agree. I hope WoWInterface and Curse will working on something better (and REALLY better) than the updaters you're providing at this time.

Another first time poster that has not read any of the previous posts nor other threads. However, new updaters are coming. CC 3 has been released and has matured nicely. CC 3 for Mac is coming, a beta has been released, it works however it has some rough edges. The new MMOUI Minion is coming. MM is WoWInterface's new updater (not quite correct, its the entire MMOI's new updater. WoWI is a part of MMOUI). Plus MM will be extendable via user written plug-ins so it's possible (if the other sites allow this) for MM to access Curse and WoWUI if the modules are written for it. The early MM API has been released although it could change.

[Nov]

Originally Posted by Lykofos Another first time poster that has not read any of the previous posts nor other threads. However, new updaters are coming. CC 3 has been released and has matured nicely. CC 3 for Mac is coming, a beta has been released, it works however it has some rough edges. The new MMOUI Minion is coming. MM is WoWInterface's new updater (not quite correct, its the entire MMOI's new updater. WoWI is a part of MMOUI). Plus MM will be extendable via user written plug-ins so it's possible (if the other sites allow this) for MM to access Curse and WoWUI if the modules are written for it. The early MM API has been released although it could change.

Tanks for your reply despite the fact I was faulty on this, my apologize.

What I wanted to say is just WoWMatrix was easy to use, it allowed access to both WoWInterface and WoWCurse's addons, allowed easy update features and I didn't noticed the "addons modified or outdated" problems. I'm not a "newcomer who had created his account to cry about the death of WoWMatrix", just a simple WoWMatrix's users (and also a WoWInterface user) saying: it was a good update software.

And for all of those who said "WoWMatrix's users are lazy, blabla" I reply: Yes, I am. That's also why I'm using and writing addons. It is just simplier to use Decursive rather than having the whole raid on screen and decurse each member manually; it is just simplier to use QuestHelper for my rerolls rather than searching for a particular location or mob; etc... It is just simplier to use WoWMatrix than using WoWInterface and WoWCurse clients. Maybe the new client of WoWInterface will be as great, but as long as WoWCurse and WoWInterface are not really working together I'm afraid the problem will be the same.

That's only my point of view ^^

I wish you a nice day.

PS: Sorry for my bad english.

[Zyonin]

Originally Posted by Nov Tanks for your reply despite the fact I was faulty on this, my apologize. What I wanted to say is just WoWMatrix was easy to use, it allowed access to both WoWInterface and WoWCurse's addons, allowed easy update features and I didn't noticed the "addons modified or outdated" problems. I'm not a "newcomer who had created his account to cry about the death of WoWMatrix", just a simple WoWMatrix's users (and also a WoWInterface user) saying: it was a good update software. And for all of those who said "WoWMatrix's users are lazy, blabla" I reply: Yes, I am. That's also why I'm using and writing addons. It is just simplier to use Decursive rather than having the whole raid on screen and decurse each member manually; it is just simplier to use QuestHelper for my rerolls rather than searching for a particular location or mob; etc... It is just simplier to use WoWMatrix than using WoWInterface and WoWCurse clients. Maybe the new client of WoWInterface will be as great, but as long as WoWCurse and WoWInterface are not really working together I'm afraid the problem will be the same. That's only my point of view ^^ I wish you a nice day. PS: Sorry for my bad english.

No problem, we the regulars of this community understand. I use AddOns myself. I used to use WAU back in the day, however I dumped it after I started customizing my AddOns myself. I did not like my changes getting bulldozed.

Now, please check out the the brand new MMOUI Minion FAQ posted by our wonderful overlord, Cairenn. It has all kinds of tidbits regarding the new updater that will be coming Soon(tm)

Originally Posted by g5pwnage First: there's an old adage in the computer security community, and it goes something like this: "Security by obscurity is no security at all". The fact that you hide your methods must mean you think they aren't very strong. Okay, so maybe that's not the best way to deal with it, but the reason people use WoWMatrix is becuase it is a lightweight way to keep track of addons, WITHOUT having to open a site, and WITHOUT having to install anything. It is completely portable, and uses NO resources when you don't have it open. Now, before you start ranting and telling me that "Curse's addon manager does the same thing!" It doesn't. It runs in the background, is a MASSIVE resource hog, and I would consider it a form of spyware. It also will not go through your interface folder searching for addons you have already installed, unlike WoWMatrix. Why don't you learn something from the WoWMatrix authors, maybe uncompile their program and reverse engineer one of your own, or, better yet, take these suggestions and MAKE one better! You have a much better selection of addons, and combine your database with Curse's, with a full featured downloader to boot, and you will be a force to be reckoned with. So, instead of complaining that "WoWMatrix 'steals' your bandwidth" (so does every other user who downloads from your site by the way), DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT... My two cents... Yours etc, William J. Knickerbocker III, Esq. P. S. I am registered on curse, and have been since '06, I don't use this site often.

AAMMMEENN!!! I am also registered @ curse, and I have filed complaints about ads and such on their site...they have done nothing but told me "check out our new addon manager..It's better now!"

I have never liked curse.com, I am impartial to wowinterface.com, I did use allakazam (sp.) once in a while, and wowace, but none of them beat WM! It's easy, it's clean, it's simple, it's FAST (it used to be until all of this banning business came about), and it gets the job done. the last time i used Curse's manager, it kept overriding addons and installing things that I didn't want, recommending addons that, descriptively seemed fine, but ended up screwing up wow, and even minimized wow a time or two to tell me that a new addon was available. the one time I used the wowi manager I just shook my head and uninstalled it. WowAce has or had an addon manager, which i kind of like, but they have so many addons - and it didn't do a good job of saying if an addon was part of a bigger package or if it was a stand-alone. WM is the only manager that does it well. but now i can't even get 3 basic addons (lightheaded, cartographer, and onebag/bank3) because curse is being stupid. I can't wait till Blizz kicks in and tells these addon companies to shove off. I don't know how many people work at curse.com or here at wowi, but I guarantee there are too many, and they're all making way too much money from these ads (though I will confess, wowi is not that bad...curse is like going to hell on the net!).

I have an idea...

Perhaps it's time for us, the users, to get our heads together and develop a torrent-version of an addon manager. We could make it function a lot like wowmatrix, but instead of addons being hosted on a particular site and "stealing" someones precious bandwidth, addons could be hosted across the globe on and shared through a torrent or gnutela network. It would be easy enough to filter out non-addon type files, a rudimentary file scanner could be built in to scan for common wow exploits and infested addons...Because see, i don't personally mind if someone takes a little bit of my bandwidth in order to download an addon from me, or a part of an addon.

I think that the actual application would have to somehow manage a client-side database of addons, to make it easy for users to search for and manage their installed addons. This database could be updated, just like wowmatrix's, when the application is run. But instead of the database pointing to curse.com or some other money-driven company, it would simply throw out a torrent or other request and receive the addon from the network, scan it, and install it. Authors wold have to help, in that they would have to submit addon update to...someplace...in order to get their information added to the database AND to "get the ball rolling" as it were with the addon.

I dunno, just a thought. Hey most of us use utorrent or limewire or other such downloaders anyway for...stuff...so why not use the same technology for our WoWing? If a lot of people used it, sites like curse, wowi, wowace, and others would be crying for WM to work with them then!

In fact, if I wasn't living on a firewalled college campus, i would STRONGLY look into developing something like this. I would even host addos for people, and allow wowmatrix to access my server to get them!

[Scalebane]

Originally Posted by petrakid I have an idea... Perhaps it's time for us, the users, to get our heads together and develop a torrent-version of an addon manager. We could make it function a lot like wowmatrix, but instead of addons being hosted on a particular site and "stealing" someones precious bandwidth, addons could be hosted across the globe on and shared through a torrent or gnutela network. It would be easy enough to filter out non-addon type files, a rudimentary file scanner could be built in to scan for common wow exploits and infested addons...Because see, i don't personally mind if someone takes a little bit of my bandwidth in order to download an addon from me, or a part of an addon. I think that the actual application would have to somehow manage a client-side database of addons, to make it easy for users to search for and manage their installed addons. This database could be updated, just like wowmatrix's, when the application is run. But instead of the database pointing to curse.com or some other money-driven company, it would simply throw out a torrent or other request and receive the addon from the network, scan it, and install it. Authors wold have to help, in that they would have to submit addon update to...someplace...in order to get their information added to the database AND to "get the ball rolling" as it were with the addon. I dunno, just a thought. Hey most of us use utorrent or limewire or other such downloaders anyway for...stuff...so why not use the same technology for our WoWing? If a lot of people used it, sites like curse, wowi, wowace, and others would be crying for WM to work with them then! In fact, if I wasn't living on a firewalled college campus, i would STRONGLY look into developing something like this. I would even host addos for people, and allow wowmatrix to access my server to get them!

[us2006027321]

Originally Posted by Scalebane

I know I'm totally wasting post space here, but Scalebane is a big pile of win for everything his post implied.

Scalebane has Arcane Brilliance active, and it shows.

[rdsully]

Originally Posted by petrakid I have an idea... Perhaps it's time for us, the users, to get our heads together and develop a torrent-version of an addon manager. We could make it function a lot like wowmatrix, but instead of addons being hosted on a particular site and "stealing" someones precious bandwidth, addons could be hosted across the globe on and shared through a torrent or gnutela network. It would be easy enough to filter out non-addon type files, a rudimentary file scanner could be built in to scan for common wow exploits and infested addons...Because see, i don't personally mind if someone takes a little bit of my bandwidth in order to download an addon from me, or a part of an addon.

You're overlooking 2 major factors that make your idea a problem, and more than a little bit illegal.

First, by doing so, you would be openly violating the copyright and license of many of the authors. This is one of the major issues the authors have with WM to start with.

Second, how are you going to provide the authors with the development tools they need this way? One of the reasons curse and wowinterface are the most popular hosts for addons among authors is because of the tools (repositories, version control, packaging, bug reporting, etc). If you can't provide that you won't get many authors to buy in to your plan at all.


A lot of you tend to muddle a number of very different issues related to this matter. Curse and WowInterface have an issue with their resources being used without their permission, among other issues.

The authors have issues with WM distributing their addons at all without consent, modifying addons, distributing old versions that cause them support issues, along with the problems it causes Curse and WowInterface from a bandwidth issue since the authors LIKE the tools and services provided the their chosen hosts and want to see them continue to be able to provide them.

[Spookie455]

Originally Posted by rdsully You're overlooking 2 major factors that make your idea a problem, and more than a little bit illegal. First, by doing so, you would be openly violating the copyright and license of many of the authors. This is one of the major issues the authors have with WM to start with. Second, how are you going to provide the authors with the development tools they need this way? One of the reasons curse and wowinterface are the most popular hosts for addons among authors is because of the tools (repositories, version control, packaging, bug reporting, etc). If you can't provide that you won't get many authors to buy in to your plan at all.

Add a third.

Many addons these days require you to actively modify the .lua (PhanxChat off the top of my head). Or come part of compilations already heavily modified. You would have people spreading many diffrent builds of the same addon and since they most likely wouldn't be titled would cause chaos for the end user and the author.

Edit: How would you push out updates too? Would you just introduce the file to a new torrent and hope the old one dies out?

[Bluspacecow]

Originally Posted by petrakid I have an idea... Perhaps it's time for us, the users, to get our heads together and develop a torrent-version of an addon manager. We could make it function a lot like wowmatrix, but instead of addons being hosted on a particular site and "stealing" someones precious bandwidth, addons could be hosted across the globe on and shared through a torrent or gnutela network.

I think Arrowmaster posted on the official forums about this idea. They (the team at wowace/curse) actually spoke with the designers of the torrent protocol. The designers of the torrent protocol told them it was a really bad idea for them to do so since a torrent is designed to share large files efficiently. Addons are too small for them to use the bandwidth effectively

[g5pwnage]

Originally Posted by petrakid AAMMMEENN!!! I am also registered @ curse, and I have filed complaints about ads and such on their site...they have done nothing but told me "check out our new addon manager..It's better now!" I have never liked curse.com, I am impartial to wowinterface.com, I did use allakazam (sp.) once in a while, and wowace, but none of them beat WM! It's easy, it's clean, it's simple, it's FAST (it used to be until all of this banning business came about), and it gets the job done. the last time i used Curse's manager, it kept overriding addons and installing things that I didn't want, recommending addons that, descriptively seemed fine, but ended up screwing up wow, and even minimized wow a time or two to tell me that a new addon was available. the one time I used the wowi manager I just shook my head and uninstalled it. WowAce has or had an addon manager, which i kind of like, but they have so many addons - and it didn't do a good job of saying if an addon was part of a bigger package or if it was a stand-alone. WM is the only manager that does it well. but now i can't even get 3 basic addons (lightheaded, cartographer, and onebag/bank3) because curse is being stupid. I can't wait till Blizz kicks in and tells these addon companies to shove off. I don't know how many people work at curse.com or here at wowi, but I guarantee there are too many, and they're all making way too much money from these ads (though I will confess, wowi is not that bad...curse is like going to hell on the net!).

Okay, so I guess what I've said has been taken a mite out of context. I don't have a problem with what WI and Curse did, it's quite understandable, and I have since stopped using WM (I do have a problem with Curse and their "customer service", but that's another story). What I had a problem with, and as Cairenn so nicely explained (no flaming, that's why I prefer this over Curse), was a lack of a decent addon manager (the Curse one is terribad, and any attempt to request a change brings out the standard programmer defensive shell), however, at WI they are working on their own version of an addon manager.

On a side note, I'm checking the MMOUI forum, and all I can find is some code... Am I missing something here?

I'll give you some bread =)

WM was just nice because I could open the program and grab any addons I wanted straight from there. I don't know how feasable this is with a legitimate program, but meh. /shrug. It worked well, was nice and simple, and very user and time friendly.

I want to thank Cair for being so patient on here too. Also, for keeping things moderately civil.