04-03-09, 04:26 PM | #701 | ||
I'm nitpicking here, but here goes anyway. (my emphasis added)
Also, generally speaking (not talking about MVPs), leaders and figureheads should be and many times are held to higher standards than others, in part precisely because of the "leaders get away with stuff" perception (true or not, and all too often true) that people develop otherwise. Last edited by Tuhljin : 04-03-09 at 04:29 PM. |
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04-03-09, 04:38 PM | #702 | |
Yeah, at this point, it's much more of a than a for me.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Last edited by Cogwheel : 04-03-09 at 04:42 PM. |
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04-03-09, 06:23 PM | #703 | ||
I'm gonna go pet my dog now, at least she loves me (when I feed her). |
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04-03-09, 08:37 PM | #704 | |
On a totally unrelated note to Cog's predicament with the post wipe, I just finished reading what can be considered as Mundocani's response over at Curse (Outfitter's description) to the harsh criticism that he had to endure all these weeks, due to his decision to cease distribution of his addons, publicly. I've bolded some of the parts because I believe that truer words couldn't have been spoken.
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04-03-09, 08:46 PM | #705 |
Man it's becoming a TLDR-fest in here. Not saying that the posts are in any way less valid, just that not many people are gonna read em!
Could you imagine if the /(?:ri|mp)aa/ could actually stop bittorrent and remove all those files from people's computers? I think the internet would * literally* burn to the ground. |
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04-03-09, 08:50 PM | #706 |
Judging from the reactions for something as simple (and maybe not as "important"), as a WoW addon, no matter how good or popular it is, I'd say that it would indeed burn to the ground. Sad. Just sad.
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04-03-09, 09:46 PM | #707 |
Okay I read the first 20 pages :P I couldn't endure the other 16 *ducks* nah I promise I'll read them later lol
I absolutely love the addons, addon authors, and the addon site hosts. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Okay I had a buunch written, and while not offensive, It's prolly stuff that's been said by a 1000 people (maybe in the 16 pages I've not read yet xD) I will say this... I love you guys, I agree with you guys, and I hope that the hurt that's come with this can be mended. I also feel that while are torn on the 'wrong/right' issue on this, I consider it a grey area. Blizz is babysitting people that can babysit themselves... If they download something, then they are taking responsibility for their own game, imo. Most of the 'ads' on donations I've ever seen in my zillions of addons, are very un-intrusive...either last page in the config, in the info, or whatever. Popups...well if there were something that was too much 'push', 'uninstall' Oo. Blizz doesn't need to babysit people so much. Seriously. Heck, if they are so concerned, they can put one person on each realm to sit in a city trade chat to 'babysit' it if they want to 'protect' their babies.... Gold sellers, etc... One thing that concerns me however... is this is going to push away addon authors. Heck, most of them (kick me if i'm wrong, just not too hard, I am fragile xD) wrote the addons for them/themselves/their guild etc...and chose to 'share' it with us. God, some of them work so dang hard that it almost gives them no time to even play the game themselves. It affects their personal life, gaming life, jobs (some i guess) their families... And to be told they can't have on their info page (for example) a donate mention? And now they have to have their addon approved...well that's a bit 'iffy too'. Addon authors have created their art, and they have shared it with us. I am extremely appreciative, and rather than 'bashing' them in the manner of Blizzard's new rules, they need to be more supportive, imo. I've told some addon authors that I've had communication with that I personally really feel for them, dealing with the 'public' and their demands. I sincerely feel that if people donate, then woot! I'm honestly glad that they do (trust me, I would if I could >.< I hate not being able to pay for the art I use as much as I'd like >.<) Gotta say too...please don't listen to the trolls on the other sites that are being mean guys...they represent a smaller number than they think *eats the trolls* I do worry *gets on her tin hat* if they are going this way...where does it stop? Okay where's my horse icon! *searches* dangit It's not in the smilies to the left *cries* ooo here we go :P
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Words to Remember: "You never really learn much from hearing yourself talk." ~ George Clooney **Jeania/Anjelie ~ Dalaran** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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04-03-09, 10:27 PM | #708 |
04-03-09, 10:39 PM | #709 |
lol nooo I know that xD trust me *throws a tomato at da friendly red woman with a grin*
no I mean that they are going to be 'monitored' so to speak, their lua has to be completely understandable, etc, lol i guess i'm not explaining that part very well xD Anyone who knows what I mean please go ahead and explain lol.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Words to Remember: "You never really learn much from hearing yourself talk." ~ George Clooney **Jeania/Anjelie ~ Dalaran** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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04-03-09, 11:00 PM | #710 | |
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04-03-09, 11:03 PM | #711 |
The main this is WoWI added a lil bit to the agreement when you upload that says you comply with the policy. So if you don't and someone reports it, they'll take it down.
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04-04-09, 01:09 PM | #712 | |
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04-04-09, 07:22 PM | #713 |
04-04-09, 11:48 PM | #714 | |
This is pretty different from the way most addon authors operate. I don't think most of us prototype interfaces in photoshop (though I'm sure some do) and even then most addons don't have a lot of original art. If you look at the guild bank, achievements, and vehicle UIs you will note that Blizzard likes to include colorful art around their interfaces. That job description is for someone to make that stuff. So honestly, I'm tired of seeing people post that link in the face of authors when it's not really what we do. |
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04-05-09, 01:31 AM | #715 | |
I wish I could agree, but I have to honestly say that I am not surprised in the least by the general reactions. But then again, I am a cynic and tend to expect the worst from people. That way I never get disappointed. I like to believe that Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is a dramatization rather than actual fiction, and I would compare Cogwheel, Mundocani, and the other authors who have pulled their work to John Galt and his associates from that novel. (I consider that a compliment, just in case it is not obvious.) |
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04-05-09, 08:09 AM | #716 |
I wanted to post to show my appreciation for the hundreds of thousands of man hours that have gone into making addons fill every feasible gap in Blizzard's standard interface. However having not read the thread completely, I would like to point out one possible reason for them clamping down so hard.
Cogwheel states that his addons are copyrighted by him. To a certain extent that is true, but there are mitigating factors. Blizzard are completely within their own rights to add aspects to their game as and when they see fit. Take for example the Equipment Manager. You could argue that the idea for the Equipment Manager was implemented first by the community. If you claim copyright on your code, that's fair enough, but what if Blizzard do it better? What if Blizzard re-use an aspect of your code in order to make theirs work? What if they copy the design, or the implementation of the addon? If Blizzard granted you legal rights to hold copyright over code inserted into their game, they are going to have to legally wrangle out every single little minutae over how they take inspiration from the community. Now you may sit there and say "I love this game and I'd freely give my code to Blizzard" but eventually someone would turn around and say "no, pay me." At which point, you'd have legal problems. As you have found out yourself, Cogwheel, for every 990 people that love your addon and praise you and even feed you donations, there are 10 who are just out for themselves. Those 10 would have caused Blizzard untold problems, and the door needed to be shut. Blizzard need to have the freedom to add things to the UI as they see fit, and they can't have people claiming copyright left and right for bits of their own game. Ultimately you're using a licenced language that Blizzard have provided, and you are limited to what they allow you to use. They are allowed to restrict copyright in that environment if they are offering it explicitly. In this case they have adopted the open source standard, which simply means you can't hide bits of code away and it has to be accessable to both themselves and the general public. Blizzard have taken a very hard stance on gold sellers in recent times. They don't want people making money out of their games. They have included a method through which people can make money from it - competitiveness in arena. That is what they are proud of. Now you may argue that all you're doing is paying for the time spent developing the addon, rather than the product, and that your donations are voluntary. It was getting to the point that people were starting to turn addon making into an economy much to the disgust of the community. So imagine if Blizzard did allow financial renumeration through their game. How long until external commercial influences got hold of it? There is already an industry built around a fictional currency that a fraction of a percent of the population use. How many addon authors would be willing to hold out if IGN came up to them and offered to buy their million download addon for a few thousand quid? All of a sudden when you load up SCT you're spammed by adverts for the latest game or soft drink or whatever. Suddenly areas of the code are locked out unless you click this link once a day which sends you to an external site. You're talking about a captive market of ten million people from every country on the planet, most of whom who play multiple hours a day. This game has the same kind of financial reach as prime time television. By doing this, Blizzard while somewhat slapping addon authors in the face have locked out a great deal of potential future problems. Carbonite was only the beginning, and it needed to stop there. If Blizzard had given authors total copyright over their own code AND financial renumeration, what if they had introduced a part of their UI that killed your income? Yes, this may be pie in the sky, but do not doubt the legal wrangling that could have resulted from this. I've been playing WoW for years and i've watched the addons community develop with Blizzard's help into something that can turn WoW into almost a new game entirely. Whether you're talking about your hardcore arena nut who just uses Gladius because he fancies himself winning the big cash prizes, to a hardcore raider who has so many addons it doesn't even look like the same game anymore, addons are core to the gameplay of many people. Every last one of your addon authors has my thanks and no doubt the thanks of millions of other WoW players. Do not doubt that Blizzard feels you are also a part of the success of their game, but they absolutely MUST cover their arses legally. EDIT: To the post below me, featured author or not I just clicked on a random page and saw a response of only "ROFLLMAO" which is not exactly what I'd call constructive discussion. I've registered solely to offer support to people who have made my gaming experience much more enjoyable and console them with possible reasons why this has happened. Just because a discussion is a few days old, does not make it "dead". This should be discussed for a long time. It is an important legal move from Blizzard. Last edited by Galactica : 04-05-09 at 08:22 AM. |
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04-05-09, 08:15 AM | #717 |
<= smilie thief
__________________
What people don't get is that I am, ultimately, an artist at heart.
My brush has two colors, 1 and 0, and my canvas is made of silicon. Official nUI Web Site: http://www.nUIaddon.com Official nUI Support Forum: http://forums.nUIaddon.com My day job: http://www.presidio.com/ |
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04-05-09, 08:27 AM | #718 |
I can see authors' side of this policy issue, but I don't see how that policy affects them overall. I donate to authors when I can afford to, so I don't see the problem with the buttons. I understand some people use these wonderful helps that you all are creative enough to put together and never ever even say thank you, let alone make a donation to help defray your time and costs, not to mention acknowledge your contribution. But imo, the authors who have shut down their add-ons in protest to Blizzard's policy aren't hurting Blizzard in the least; the WoW users who use and appreciate their add-ons and helps are bearing the brunt of their decision to pack up their toys and go home.
So, to all who make these wonderful tools that we all use, THANK YOU! And I hope that you will reconsider your decision to withdraw these wonderful and valuable tools that we all use. I will continue to support authors with donations when funds allow, and hopefully, continue to receive the fruits of their labor. EDIT: I have to say that Galactica pretty much summed it all up in his/her post. I'm not as learned about the nuances of the whys and whos and what they did, but know that legally, Blizzard had to put a stop to the leak before it became a flood. Last edited by Peyana : 04-05-09 at 08:36 AM. Reason: Agree with Galactica |
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04-05-09, 08:56 AM | #719 | |
Last edited by Peyana : 04-05-09 at 08:59 AM. Reason: grammar check:) |
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04-05-09, 02:17 PM | #720 | |||||||
This policy does nothing to change the legal issues of implementing an addons functionality into the base UI. Even if Blizzard considers addons derivative works, this does not invalidate the copyright. It simply means they have an interest in it too. The same logic that allows Blizzard to stop an addon they consider to be a derivative work from being distributed can be used by the author to stop Blizzard from using it. So the policy has absolutely nothing to do with implementing the functionality of addons into the core of the game.
You don't see anyone getting up in arms about this because it's free to them. But gosh an addon author wanting to make money that a player might have to actually pay, well gosh that's just wrong. This has everything to do with the entitlement that people feel and nothing about who is and isn't actually making money. Incidentally, those sites mentioned above, every last one of them has fan site status from Blizzard.
Blizzard doesn't give us copyright. We have copyright. It's something that automatically happens according to law.
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WoWInterface » General Discussion » Chit-Chat » WoW UI AddOn Development Policy discussion thread |
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