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04-14-09, 06:49 PM | #281 |
This is not a personal attack on anyone in any way.
/PUSH DA BUTTONS! /MOVE DA MOUSEY! /PUSH SOME MORE BUTTONS! /UPDATE DA ADDONS! Thank you. Thank you very much.
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~ no need to make the message completely obnoxious - Cairenn |
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04-14-09, 06:55 PM | #282 | |
What is hard about this concept? Why can't any of you 1 post guys see this? You have no idea what you are talking about. Incidentally, it is not a big virtual middle finger given. They began protecting themselves from thieves. In what way does that harm ANY users of their site(s)? If anything, it makes this site more secure and safe to use. The fact you and so many other 1 post wonders fail to acknowledge this point leads anyone with at least half a brain to know what you're trying to do here. WM should be glad they aren't facing criminal charges. Period. |
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04-14-09, 06:55 PM | #283 | |
/PUSHDABUTTONS /MOVEDAMOUSEY /PUSHSOMEMOREBUTTONS /UPDATEDAAADONS unless you want to generalize it, perhaps you could implement /PUSHDA and /UPDATEDA so it would be /PUSHDA BUTTONS /PUSHDA MOUSEY /PUSHDA MORE BUTTONS /UPDATEDA ADDONS
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たしかにひとつのじだいがおわるのお ぼくはこのめでみたよ だけどつぎがじぶんおばんだってことわ しりたくなかったんだ It's my turn next. Shakespeare liked regexes too! /(bb|[^b]{2})/ |
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04-14-09, 07:00 PM | #284 | ||
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04-14-09, 07:02 PM | #285 | |
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~ no need to make the message completely obnoxious - Cairenn |
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04-14-09, 07:06 PM | #286 |
If you have read through this thread to educate yourself, I hope that you did not skip over the parts answering your question...
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04-14-09, 07:10 PM | #287 |
Dammit, Tek always takes away my nerd rage.
In my last build, I had 76 addons. Since WAU went away, I have not installed an auto updater, and I faired very well. It looks like people will get the opportunity to get some practice in with manual updates. I recommend getting a nifty stopwatch and making a game out of it, it might be fun. I'm of the opinion that auto <insert anything> is evil. I just hope that auto reproduction never comes into play for human procreation, especially after reading replies over the last month or so regarding this issue and the UI policy issue. We are all doomed. |
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04-14-09, 07:11 PM | #288 |
er.. Curse's updater on last launch spawned 200+ windows before I had to hard shut down Vista to get it to stop. And WowInterface has an updater? I don't recall ever seeing such a thing, or anyone making mention of it for that matter.
While this may "protect" site authors, I don't see it being anything other than additional trouble for users. Are there plans for a Wowinterface updater or a unified curse/wowinterface updater that doesn't explode? Or is the website the only option? Last edited by segma : 04-14-09 at 07:13 PM. |
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04-14-09, 07:14 PM | #289 |
This, also, should in no way shape or form be construed as a personal attack on anyone...
/gasp! /pant! /groan! I just... <gulp>.... updated five addons... using nothing... <wheeze>... but my mouse.... <moan>... keyboard... <arrrgghh> and fingers.... Somebody please.... dial... 911! /faint
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~ no need to make the message completely obnoxious - Cairenn |
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04-14-09, 07:29 PM | #290 | ||
I acknowledge, though, that it would have taken a lot to make me completely happy. Clients are no doubt a lot of work, and Maul is likely right that peak bandwidth costs inflicted on WoWI/curse as a result of a major WoW patch are a huge expense to them. But... there's still no excuse for the lack of warning. We've known 3.1 was coming for how many weeks now? This "WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users" announcement could have been posted a month ago, with a mention that WM would be cutoff patch day or the day before. Given that WoWI/curse know better than anyone that there are thousands of people using WM that they would be cutting off, you'd think that they'd give plenty of warning, as a matter of courtesy and to get people visiting their sites for mods ahead of time. Instead, they added to the already huge clusterfrak that is a WoW patch day by springing this as a surprise on everyone. That's not harmful, but it is rude. Umm, "secure and safe" from what? I wasn't aware that I was in any danger from this website, or any other. |
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04-14-09, 08:20 PM | #291 | |
Same here, I love the authors here and at curse but everyone knows that your addon managers just aren't competent alternatives to WM. If you make an addon that you are so confident about that gives you an extra sentence in your resume then create your own site (carbonite?) and charge people to use it. If on the other hand you create an addon and upload it to a site that allows users to download for free then get used to the fact that someone somewhere will find a better way to download it. How many millions of users used your addons due primarily to WM and looked you up to find more of your stuff? I will go back to the default interface before I ever set foot back at curse as I got a nasty virus there that shut me down for days. Screw them. Heres to hoping you see that making a manager like WM should be top priority. |
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04-14-09, 08:44 PM | #292 |
Like many other disenchanted former WM users, I'm only now learning about the WI/WM feud because of the spot on WoW Insider. That article pretty much sums up my feelings--sure, it's mildly inconvenient to go back to manual updates, but no reason to pitch a fit (for those interested, I have 186 items in my Addons folder). Yes, it would be nice if Curse or WI were able to offer a functional update tool for everyone to migrate to, but for whatever reason, they aren't, so let's put that horse to rest and move on.
The bit that bothers me is the moral spin that people try to put on it, as if WM were a product of malicious hackers and thieves, as if there is something inherently base about automating the process of fetching links from pages, or--laughably--that the authors of WM could be held legally culpable for doing so. They've been uncooperative douchebags, yes, but it takes a certain degree of self-righteous indignation to vilify them to the level of being criminally depraved. I absolutely understand the frustration of a webadmin whose site has been taken down on account of thoughtless users misusing provided resources. I can also empathize with the irritation of a developer who is being bothered again about bugs that were fixed two patches ago why don't you people ever check for updates before filing redundant bug reports ARGH. However, it would have made a much more positive impression on the WoW community, particularly the vast majority like me who previously had no inkling of what has apparently been going on behind the scenes for quite awhile now, to see an objective, professional explanation of what transpired up to this point, minus the bile-laced amateur character profiling. Most WM users are pretty annoyed right now, and by making this a personal ordeal, you incite them against you, making yourselves the object of that annoyance. By making it personal, you make yourselves seem petty and short-sighted. You can try to explain that the service was being abused (which it clearly was), but when you try to say that it was being abused by thieves and hackers, people are only going to hear you calling names. That's my 2c. Other than that, business is business; shutting down WM was necessary, and WI/Curse can't be faulted for it. I appreciate the WI mods taking the time to acknowledge feedback in this thread. |
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04-14-09, 08:44 PM | #293 | |
The proper solution would be to work WITH not again WoWMatrix. Asking them to stop is not with. Blocking them is not with. WoWMatrix filled a void that neither Curse nor WoWInterface is able to or up to filling. The curse client is absolutely horrendious and causes more problems than it solves. I can understand the upload of player's add-ons to W-M's own servers; thats bad. However, I don't believe that's the case. I also don't believe they've been filtering out donation code. But, if they had - GOOD!. It's against TOS now. Add-ons are not your job, it's your hobby. If you can get a few hand-ins from it, great! But to spam users for donations? Are you f'ing human? Deep linking is *not* illegal and should be encouraged. Pointing people to the direct download links is also not illegal and should be encouraged. It gets your links out there. It gets people talking about WoWInterface. That chatter will actually *increase* your traffic. It's a common fact, FULL RSS Feeds increase traffic, even though you're giving everything away through a simple text only interface. If W-M is having problems with version numbers, how about supply them with an API capable of better reading and understanding version numbers? If you don't want them to remotely host physical add-ons, ask them not to. You can't prove they do, so that's all you can do. If authors don't want to be included, for some only selfish reasons, then how about in your API you supply the authors an option not to be included in the checks? You can tell W-M to use that API, and filter (for god knows why... dumb authors?) what's displayed. W-M filled a void neither site is able to do on its own. It allowed users to have *ONE* central source for auto-updating their add-ons. It was a *blessing!* and you apparently are unable to see it. Banning it simply because you can't complete isn't a proper solution. It's not a user-friendly solution. It's not a community-friendly solution. It's a pure envious solution. Users found a great application that can update across three sites (Ace, Curse, WoWInterface). Curse and WoWI are so introverted in their perceptions, they don't understand what they truly did. I'm sad to see WoWI, a great resource which I was even apart in during the up-most earliest of days [eq side], stoop to this level. It's very anti-user. PS: Curse client is a piece of s*. I'll never use their client ever again -- I've tried using it 3 times, every time it f* everything up. |
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04-14-09, 08:49 PM | #294 | |
Now, if your client works with Curse, Ace and WoWI. I'll sit back and watch. However, if it doesn't ... again ... t's short-sighted. It's the new DRM of Add-On sites... And I prey to god it's better than the Curse client which is horrendous, unstable, *ad crazy* and, worst off, it does not "just update my add-ons." *Edit: Oh, I have the perfectly idea: How about building an API capable of checking and linking to the downloads for add-ons and then let the community build their own updater apps? Supply a EULA that states "you may not modify add-ons. You may not remotely store add-ons." Done. Everybody is happy and Shirik doesn't have to kill himself to build a client (I'm assuming it's not as bad as Curse's). This will build a true competitive market for add-on applications, which will drive the sites and community to out-do each other. Eg: improving the user experience immensely! And best of all, it would build yourself as the key centralized add-on site, potentially eclipsing Curse (who remains closed-minded, short-sited). Last edited by guice : 04-14-09 at 09:01 PM. |
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04-14-09, 09:08 PM | #295 |
What bothers me is people not understanding what morality even is any more. Using your own words, WM acted like "douchebags" and caused sites to go down due to thoughtless misuse of resources.... and you don't find that to be unethical?
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04-14-09, 09:17 PM | #296 |
I would have liked to wait longer until our new updater was ready or a better community solution was ready but truth is we cant handle the load of WM alone. We can hardly handle the load now.
Last edited by Dolby : 04-14-09 at 09:27 PM. |
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04-14-09, 09:29 PM | #297 | |
Just a thought. There's no need to carry the full burden on your own anymore. That's what the internet is for! Using a CDN would offload a good 90% of your traffic right off the bat. It would also make W-M's traffic moot. |
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04-14-09, 09:30 PM | #298 |
You guys didn't follow the bouncing ball I alluded to. Let me say it in straight out terms, then.
We didn't want to go here (breaking WowMatrix) yet. We wanted to wait until after our new updater was ready. But: We. Didn't. Have. A. Choice. Why would we not have a choice? Because other sites were going to be implementing theirs today, whether we did or not. If we didn't go ahead with ours today as well, we wouldn't be running at all today. They (WowMatrix) would have jumped from splitting their scraping of both sites to scraping only one site, our site, since they couldn't access the other one. We'd be down today, completely and totally, no one would be able to get to our site at all. How does that help anyone? We are truly sorry that we had to do this today when we couldn't offer another alternative. We really would have preferred to wait. We're sorry that it had to happen this way. I don't know what else to say beyond that. |
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04-14-09, 09:42 PM | #299 | |
For those of you that are unaware: WoWI is run through very few servers. In fact, there is no rotation. We'd love to have a massive server farm, but that costs money. Money that, quite frankly, WoWMatrix is cutting into.
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たしかにひとつのじだいがおわるのお ぼくはこのめでみたよ だけどつぎがじぶんおばんだってことわ しりたくなかったんだ It's my turn next. Shakespeare liked regexes too! /(bb|[^b]{2})/ |
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04-14-09, 09:43 PM | #300 | |
Who would pay for the CDN? I can't say I've reserched it but bandwidth is bandwidth and I'm sure its expensive.
Its actually our php server not able to keep up with them scraping our pages for every addon a user has. Its basically like a ddos right now. I wouldnt have had much of a problem giving them an xml feed if they contacted us and removed the ads from their patcher. Keep in mind what we have done is only a temporary solution to try and stay a float. Everything you said is easier said then done and takes time. I'm sure a solution can be found though.
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WoWInterface » Site Forums » News » WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users |
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