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View Poll Results: Does a modern society need religion. | |||
Yes, yes it does | 21 | 28.38% | |
No, no it doesn't | 53 | 71.62% | |
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll |
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11-02-10, 08:22 AM | #81 |
11-08-10, 07:59 AM | #82 |
So it's wrong to base an opinion on the likeliness of something? I'll link you forward to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd_hHCWlldo (the good part starts around the middle)
With risk of using "multi-shoot". Richard Dawkins on The Greatest Show on Earth This explains i think in a good way what many of us who is "non-belivers" feels. I can many time feel that i cant argue to hard when i argue with religious people. Religion have over the year got its own protective shield that automatically makes all arguer to trouble makers. All scientific beliefs need to be argued, revalued, dismissed and so on to be realistic, and to develop. Religion on the other hand just is at is is. If you argue about it you are a trouble maker and you certainly cant argue to much! Then you comes to points where the religion isn't enough to answer the questions. I think this is a great thread with really interesting questions. Btw, im from Sweden and we don't have many native religious people left in our country. |
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11-08-10, 10:14 AM | #83 | ||
Now I'm just going to ignore some of the discussion topics made as I don't see them coming to a conclusion anytime this century.
Roman Catholic here, although I'm quite liberal. Religion for me is just a way of interpretation. You can call it God or the Powers of Nature one thing remains clear: There are things we don't know, there are things we don't understand. Can Science answer all questions? Are Religion and Science really that different? Religion simply tries to fill out the gap between knowledge and uncertainty. Without it we'd be lost. Or to quote the blockbuster Angels and Demons:
Last edited by Jooze : 11-08-10 at 10:20 AM. |
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11-09-10, 05:14 PM | #84 | ||||||
About the new religions, where do you draw the line about what has to be taken seriously? Is Scientology to be taken seriously, should they have an influence in society? Should Mormons? Etc.
I also never claimed I wouldn't support non religious people. Everyone has the right on social security, a job, health insurance, etc. regardless of believe, race, sexual orientation etc.
The opinion thing about why we are here. Isn't that a bit easy? "Well it's my opinion, there isn't a certainty, so therefore our opinions have the same value." ? What gives religion this power to be based purely around belief? When it doesn't apply anything else?
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11-10-10, 12:15 PM | #85 | ||||||||||
Why do you ask me this again? I already answered you. In every single reply I've ever made in this thread. So have others. How you managed to ignore them is beyond me.
In all fairness, Europe also used to have anti-gay laws, and not just because of religion. People just thought it was unacceptable, religion or not. With time, they changed their views and so will Africa.
If you mean that religious people will be corrupt and want power, I'm gonna tell you that so do politicians, CEOs, Joe the farmer, etc.
Funny story: at my old school we had a special category of classes called "ethics". You had a one hour class a week of either Moral as they called it, which was where you learned that democracy is awesome, people should be good to each other, yada yada yada; or you could choose a religion course and the school would find a teacher for you regardless of your religion and even if you were the only one in the school who belonged to that religion. The punch line here is that both types of classes taught the same basic things: freedom of choice, equality, solidarity, selflessness, tolerance, etc. The moral teacher would talk about religion at times and the religion teachers would talk about climate change at times. Just that the moral teacher claimed everything she taught was "common sense" while the religion teacher said it was "how God/Allah/whatever intended it".
Besides, I never said I was against that. On the contrary, I would want my child to be taught BOTH and decide for himself which is more accurate.
At the end of the day, people don't really care what science or politicians or intellectuals say. They'll believe in what makes them happy and there's nothing you can say or do that will convince them otherwise. Maybe that's the power of religion.
Last edited by haylie : 11-10-10 at 12:18 PM. |
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11-10-10, 02:43 PM | #86 | |||||||||||
Was your answer. I find it strange that you refer science and god both as blindly believing. While I think it's quite clear one of them is actually based upon study, evidence etc. Does that make science infallible? No. They get influenced by whoever pays the studies etc too. Does that mean we have to believe made up stories from people just because the actual intention in the end might be the same? I don't think so. I think it's quite normal that we search for the truth. Religion could've been the truth thousands of years ago, but not in 2010. What I try to say with "you can't take the context out of religion" is that if you are a religious person, even a modern religious person, you will always have these sort of "prejudices" (and I don't mean racism, or discrimination or things like that) which are just a part of your religion.
"How come the archbishop André-Joseph Léonard is the grand chancellor and member of the board at the Catholic University of Leuven? A university. That *gasp* teaches evolutionary biology and everything! How can that be!" Yes and?
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11-10-10, 03:09 PM | #87 |
All human religions are almost certainly not true, however they should be tolerated, but have no power outside the believers mind. While the concept of a god, afterlife etc. is plausible, believing in any one of the founded religions is completely irrational.
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11-10-10, 03:13 PM | #88 |
Just finished watching "Religulous" for the second time. In my opinion, there is no point in discussing whether society needs religion or not. I speak only for myself.
I'm an atheist and I've been like that for many years. Even though I used to study Bible in school for 6 years, I never had faith. Maybe I have to thank my other teachers who taught me about Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Norse and other mythologies, so I never had any doubt that most things that were described in holy books of the past did not take place. I agree with Bill Maher about people being able to fulfill the prophecy of Armageddon without interference from any almighty being and that actually scares me more than some sort of punishment I might get for my sins after I die. I feel myself pretty comfortable without faith and I don't try to fill the "hole" with drugs, sex and alcohol or whatever poison people come up with. At the moment science can't provide answers to all questions that we might have about ourselves, our planet and the Universe in general, but in the past three hundred years we as a race gained a lot of knowledge about things that were thought to be there just because some creator put them there. Scientists can't answer why the Universe appeared in the first place and it's not really a scientific question, but is it really that important to find an answer to that to be able to live a happy life? Without faith I don't have to worry about Judgment Day and I don't have to go to church to confess in my sins. It doesn't mean that I don't do bad things, but I do have my own mind to decide whether I was right or wrong. If you don't follow Machiavelli's teachings it does actually take some effort to forgive yourself for certain deeds. Looking back at my life, the only things that I regret are the good things that I never said to some people, not the bad things that I said to others since I already asked them to forgive me and most of them did. I'm not a rapist, not a child molester, not a killer, not a burglar or a thief. Pretty much, I'm just your regular Joe or John or whichever name is popular in your country today. Even though I do believe that religion is a bad thing for the same reasons most atheists probably do, I do realize that some people will have hard time living without faith. I know that I will sound like a snob, but currently being a non-believer is as hard as being a homosexual in some redneck state in USA. I didn't read the whole thread, but I skimmed through some posts here. Opthimus has written "All scientific beliefs need to be argued, revalued, dismissed and so on to be realistic, and to develop. Religion on the other hand just is at is is." To be honest, I don't think that it's the problem of religion. Some people just don't want to hear perfectly rational explanations even if it's not about religion, but about something controversial. I recently had a discussion with a friend of mine who just dismissed everything I said, even though I actually tried to prove my point with scientific facts. The only thing that I realized is if I want to continue the friendship, I will just have to accept her opinion, even if it's based on "no matter what you say, I'm right" sort of argument. On the other hand, I had a very long discussion about god with one religious friend of mine. Though none of us succeeded in persuading the other, I don't feel like it was a waste of time since I learned some facts about Christianity and he actually tried to reason with me. The former case proved to me that some people just can't acknowledge the fact that they might be wrong and that's the root of all evil. If such a person is religious, it only adds insult to injury. In before any possible answer someone might decide to write, I voiced my opinion and I'm leaving this thread for good. |
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11-10-10, 03:48 PM | #89 |
I was right on the first page of this thread and people just keep proving my point. Thank you... I guess...
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11-11-10, 09:47 AM | #90 | |
Then why do you keep on arguing?
You know, I'm getting pretty tired with you trying to impose your opinion on me just because you can't accept the fact that religion is a big part of our society and it's not gonna go away no matter how hard you try to convince people it's not needed. So instead I'm gonna underline what I said before and leave it at that:
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11-12-10, 10:09 AM | #91 | |
Cause I don't agree, obviously. That's something that can occur in a discussion.
Ofcourse I accept the fact that religion is a part in our society. But that wasn't the question.
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