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04-16-09, 05:42 PM | #521 | |
I'm not painting WM has the white knight either. It's definitely has some spiders in its closet, but people used it for a purpose: it was simple, easy to use and it got the job done in the least amount of time with the least amount of intrusion (eg: ad intrusion, clicks). Anybody out to take up the slack has a lot to live up to, but it certainly isn't impossible. Anyway. My point was don't pull "fine, we'll just close! How do you like that?" card. It's dumb. It's a bluff, and I called it. |
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04-16-09, 05:47 PM | #522 | |
No sites are not irreplaceable. Neither does the cash to maintain those sites grow on trees. So in the situation you present, sites that don't block WM simply go under due to WM's leeching and some other poor bugger puts a site up and has to pay WM bills instead. Here's a novel idea, how about WM paying their bills and using their own bandwidth? Problem solved. and it wasn't a we'll close our site down threat/bluff or anything else. It was a question based on the fact that due to the WM blocking, WM can no longer leech bandwidth from Curse/WOWInterface. Now if WM wasn't blocked and this site and Curse simply closed down, WM users would be in exactly the same situation as they are now. Actually no that's wrong WM users are in a better situation now, because at least they can still come here and get access to their mods. Last edited by Raventiger : 04-16-09 at 05:50 PM. |
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04-16-09, 05:49 PM | #523 |
It wasn't anything more than a rhetorical question, you're the one who made it personal, not to Cairenn, or even WoWI, but to those of us who have come to think of WoWI as 'the White Knight'. They do an outstanding job at running this site, and for someone to say they're easily replaceable is insulting.
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04-16-09, 05:51 PM | #524 |
Well isn't that clear? WM drives everyone else out of business and is left as the only addon host!
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I have reached enlightment. Thank you bacon! |
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04-16-09, 05:52 PM | #525 | |
And, to be quite honest, my ideas may not be the best or even only solution. There are always solutions that we can't see. Dolby, himself, admitted to not looking into CDNs. It may be the very solution he's been looking for all these years. Or it may not. /shrug. I don't know the site statistics to say. Still. The point here isn't to "make WM Pay!" but to build a business model where these "leaches" aren't a problem. You sound like Newspapers: make everybody pay for news, that way they can stay in business! |
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04-16-09, 05:53 PM | #526 | |
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04-16-09, 06:03 PM | #527 | |
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04-16-09, 06:07 PM | #528 |
My apologies if my remarks were out of line. Personally I'm more than a little bit fed up with the attacks on this site and it's admins, and that's how I took your post.
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04-16-09, 06:08 PM | #529 |
Well they can't just up and host anything they want to, it's a copyright violation. If they want to host addons that aren't licensed for them to do so without getting permission first, then they have to win over the authors to get permission.
__________________
I have reached enlightment. Thank you bacon! |
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04-16-09, 06:14 PM | #530 | |
Either case, the admins do their best for the users here. The site is very well designed and very clean (much cleaner now they took out all the ugly "WoW-esque" borders and crap). You can't say the same for any other UI site out there, so far. I'm not trying to attack anybody. I did come off, initially, a little harsh by the actions they have taken. I still disagree with them, but have calmed down through simple discussion since then. Dolby has picked up a few things from this post; I only hope a few of them were suggestions I've made. Eh, doesn't really matter. As long as WoWI keeps improving and, hopefully, either unblocks WM or outdoes them. I will still remain critical of any solution that ties you to one site -- that was my key reason for using WM. |
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04-16-09, 06:15 PM | #531 | |
Now the WoWMatrix users are angry because WoWI's security guard is stopping WoWMatrix from stealing paper and printing their (better organized paper), stubbornly refusing to recognize that, at the rate things were going WoWI would be unable to buy paper for themselves or WoWMatrix, ending the show for everybody. That's because they were taking addons with no-redistribution clauses. If they had stuck to addons whose licenses allow for redistribution (e.g. GPL/BSD), it would not have been a problem. |
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04-16-09, 06:22 PM | #532 | |
By far, the best analogy I've seen yet... and I hate analogies. |
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04-16-09, 06:23 PM | #533 |
You mean Google News. ^_^
Now you see how my analogy worked. To Google's credit, and discredit of WM a bit, Google didn't re-print the entire article. WM works a little different in that WM is able to display all the relevant information in a quick tiny little spot, allowing the user to quickly glance over the list and hit 'Update' without having to visit the site. But, I do, on occasion, click on "Visit official site" and get annoyed with there isn't such a link on some add-ons didn't have such a link. However, what puzzles me most of all isn't WoWI's response, but the authors. WM allowed users to install SO MANY add-ons so efficiently. The authors should be *****ing at WoWI, too! The authors should be more worried about getting their add-ons known and out there...complaining because WM made their add-ons easier to get? I'm baffled. |
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04-16-09, 06:26 PM | #534 | ||||
Who said I didn't want to hear the answer? Who said I was trying to claim to be the white knight? I certainly didn't, on either count.
I didn't say we were irreplaceable. And you can't call a bluff when there was no bluff to call.
Guice, I have to admit, from having known you and worked with you (so to speak) for as many years as I have, I have been absolutely flabbergasted and hurt at the way you've been attacking us as a whole and me personally. Anyway, to my point .... If you hadn't bothered to skip around, but had instead actually read the rest of the posts, you would have seen this:
Yet in the first case, the users CAN still get the mods from our site, because we are still in existence. So why are we being vilified? Last edited by Cairenn : 04-16-09 at 06:33 PM. |
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04-16-09, 06:38 PM | #535 | |
Also, a general question, on topic. Why do people think it is WoWI and Curse's 'job' to provide an alternative that does exactly what WM did? They are addon author support sites who happen to encourage addon users to join the community, authors and users both benefit from this. Addon authors have been born from this site because of this and addon authors get valuable (non monetary value) feedback and ideas. WoWI provides an outlet for excellent support and community features, and happen to value that enough to protect it. I'm sure part of their reasoning in this current situation was that everyone would see WM for what it was and would find communities (WoWI and Curse) that they could participate in. And, by looking at the traffic in this thread, they were half right. It's too bad that not everyone agrees with people who try to protect their resources. |
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04-16-09, 06:41 PM | #536 | |
There are several reasons authors don't like WoWMatrix (this is understanding and recognizing it is an easier way to update). 1.) Simplicity, it is much easier to keep track of things when I know what and from where people are getting my work. Keeping it down to WoWI lets me easily control that. 2.) WoWMatrix often modified addon files before installing them. I have seen several bugs out there associated only with WoWMatrix users, because WM was fooling with the files. From time to time it also distributed old versions, which could wreak equal havoc. 3.) (related to 2) While a moot point now, WoWMatrix was removing addons in-game donation requests. Go figure, some authors didn't appreciate that. 4.) (Possibly most important) It was not an opt-in service. Or even an opt-out. When I create a work, it is my right to determine how (or if) that work is distributed. WoWMatrix took that right away. They provided addons without permission, and ignored authors protests. From my perspective (not WoWIs) this is the worst. All my works are under the GPL or BSD, meaning WoWMatrix can redistribute at will, but that was my choice, and to me it's precious. Other authors make different choices, and I suspect to them having that choice is equally precious. Edit: I'm off to dinner now, but I will happily discuss this further later. Hopefully you can see my point of view. |
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04-16-09, 06:42 PM | #537 | ||
Why? It's because I don't believe its "WM's fault." They were accessing publicly accessible links. They were going around the HTML for the users to provide them an extremely efficient way of updating their add-ons. The WM builders saw an opportunity, and they took it. The response, over a year later, is "ban them." Yes, I read that you've attempted to contact them. But, again, I don't blame WM for using what's already available. It's just an oversight in the original design of the whole site. Why do we create captchas? Why do some sites force people to register before they can download? Why do we create sites asking for an email, then emailing a time limited link to download some application? All these are attempts to prevent bots from scanning, siphoning, or automating tasks we expect a human of doing. There are certainly tasks that cannot be done if we required a person to verify themselves around every turn. For these tasks, you have to either play nice with bots, or play mean with people. You can't go the other way on either of them -- it's a lose/lose situation. It's the nature of the internet! You don't know who's a bot and who's human. I think it's a benefit. Naturally others see this as an issue. |
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04-16-09, 06:46 PM | #538 | |
Well, maybe if authors or interface sites were able to work with the "automated" WM a little cleaner, it wouldn't have been a problem. ^_^ I think the author's dissatisfaction was slightly misplaced. As for your other question about the clients? They made the first move, that's why. When the users become accustomed to something, you expect the ones enforcing to compensate. Especially since they reasons they are blocking isn't illegal or "wrong" by any huge extent. |
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04-16-09, 06:47 PM | #539 | |
I'll respond to your other points, if there's need, in another post. |
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04-16-09, 06:52 PM | #540 | |
Edit: As for my other points, you asked why authors weren't upset about WM going away, I told you. What you do with it from there is up to you. |
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WoWInterface » Site Forums » News » WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users |
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