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04-14-09, 04:40 AM | #41 | ||
As for who makes money out of it, it's not my primary concern either, however I can see how it can be a concern and given the option, I'd much rather have the people who are gracious enough to host the addons, benefit from it financially than anyone else. Why ? Because they make authors lives easier, they provide tools, repository system, packagers, the works. I hope that it is now crystal clear on why some of us have this "misplaced desire to control every aspect of our project". Misplaced desire, rofl. Really, now.
All in all, if you are unfamiliar with the site, you can just as well seek help in a reasonable and polite manner. If you are here to stir trouble or vent your frustration due to your precious updater being broken on a patch day, then, as the moderators will probably confirm, you picked the wrong site. |
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04-14-09, 04:40 AM | #42 | |
The few error reports that would be provided by these users would be copy and pastes of error text that the author should already be aware of if he's eating his own dogfood. |
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04-14-09, 04:41 AM | #43 | |
Why did they pick today? It's obvious, they wanted to unveil this defense on the day they needed it the most. If WoWMatrix were working, this site would probably be crushed under the weight of hundreds of thousands of people spamming the update button, and their bandwidth usage would be astronomical. If they had released this last week, it would have given WM time to get around it. When someone is stealing from your house, you add new locks. |
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04-14-09, 04:51 AM | #44 |
I agree with the blocks, however I'm disappointed that I'll most likely be forced to use the Curse updater due to the basically nonexistent WOWI updater
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04-14-09, 04:53 AM | #45 | |
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04-14-09, 04:55 AM | #46 | ||||||
The practice was commonplace. People'd FTP to cdrom.com/pub/doom/wads, pick stuff at random and stuff it on a disk. Most people included license text plainly visible as a separate .txt/file_id.diz file that explained redistribution rights - I waived mine. I still can't tell what most addons here say on the matter without downloading them. You get into weird territory with copyright in that area.
You've partially answered the question regarding why people want their addons to only be distributed through these sites, but I still fail to understand why they're willing to go to such great lengths as to spawn arguments wherever they roam regarding it. It's WOWI/Curse's burden, not the interface author's, and again, I can't understand why interface authors feel that further distribution of the product they release free of charge to anyone who cares to click on a download link is upset by further distribution. The argument continually switches between finances, author's rights, morality, but they never meet up in one cohesive, convincing argument.
There's another post after I started writing this reply, which I'll reply to here.
The argument of 'bandwith usage' is moot, though, after just a moment's thought. More bandwidth will be used by forcing the UI elements of every page to load, the PHP of every search to execute, the text of every futile search for each individual addon for each individual user than will be used by people clicking an update button. The average addon is relatively small - The largest addon I have installed is QuestHelper at 22MB. Server load, moreso than bandwidth concerns, come into play during patch day due to searching, PHP code rendering (I'm pretty sure there's no backend caching taking place, but I haven't looked that closely), and user activity. Out of curiosity, how many addon authors that state ad revenue for WOWI/Curse as their cause for concern visit these sites with AdBlockPlus or the like? Edit for a gem:
Last edited by Rendus : 04-14-09 at 04:58 AM. |
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04-14-09, 04:58 AM | #47 |
i dont trust other addon sites other than wowinterface and curse!!
if wowmatrix leeching these legit sites!! is it not possible to implement a situation where you have to be login as members before you can download? and put alot more security features like confirmation code that changes everytime you download the same files so that they cannot deep-link files in wowinterface and curse to wowmatrix? |
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04-14-09, 04:59 AM | #48 | |
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04-14-09, 05:00 AM | #49 | |
If they could not update their addons due to a lack of understanding, how did they install WoW? Maybe some of the authors wrote the addons for themself and not for other endusers. Thought about that?
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„Es mejor morir de pie que vivir toda una vida de rodillas!“ (Emiliano Z.) 44203=1010110010101011=126253=???? ! |
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04-14-09, 05:05 AM | #50 | ||
Insulting the end user is a common practice, but in the end it serves no purpose. There are people that were given instructions, and followed them, but don't know what exactly it was that they did. I guarantee you that every user in the forum, at one point in their computer-using lives, have done this.
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04-14-09, 05:10 AM | #51 |
Actually this entire discussion is moot. This is October 2008 all over again.
http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?t=14361 http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=18358 http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...1&pageNo=23#33 People are simply months old on this subject. You can even watch in these threads as how WM was altering their application, during our discussions. I suggest that people take the time to go through all these threads and think long and hard if they have anything new to bring to the table. Nothing more needs to be said than what has been posted on those mega threads. |
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04-14-09, 05:15 AM | #52 | |
You're right, though. Nobody's going to convince anyone of anything at this point. Addon authors insist they want to help WOWI/Curse by keeping their addons here, but clog the database and storage with addons they haven't updated since the dawn of time, and with Hello, World!-style addons that should've never passed through their router. I've actually made it a habit of clicking on everyone's "Addon Author" pip, just to see what sort of atrocities were written by the people arguing this, and only one person that I've noticed (I'm sure I've missed someone) has more addons updated in the last 3 months than not (this author being Tristanian, as a matter of fact. Salut.). I'm willing to bet that if WOWI/Curse were to cull these useless addons that no longer serve as even programming examples due to their age and obsolescence, they'd solve more issues due to a reduced search index and less storage used than they'll save by banning WowMatrix for a month. And it's all moot anyway as their measures will inevitably be bypassed. |
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04-14-09, 05:25 AM | #53 | |
Why would a stable working addon need to be updated in the last three months? There's been no major changes to the UI code, no TOC updates between Nov and now, so a working addon (like mine) might not need any updates. You assume that an addon that hasn't been updated every week is somehow non-functional, which just isn't true. |
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04-14-09, 05:28 AM | #54 | |
I notice your only addon was updated yesterday. Why'd you do that? There you go. |
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04-14-09, 05:33 AM | #55 |
Well, some of the authors choose Curse as a place to "actively" update their addons, would be more precise to say actually WoWAce (the addons are only getting syndicated to Curse). Why ? I would reckon, it's mostly a matter of version control system. Usually, if you pick one, you stick with the supporting site, mostly due to technical reasons with the packager support. It's really not anything personal and most of us know each other anyway and don't hold it against each other
I do agree that both databases need some deal of cleanup, BUT, there are instances of addons that are still perfectly working and don't need updates (in all honesty a working addon doesn't need a .toc bump or something, I personally do it, to avoid support questions and save time). Best thing is to report a vastly outdated (and broken) addon and at least here on WoWI, I've personally witnessed that the response/evaluation is generally fast, in such an occasion. |
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04-14-09, 05:34 AM | #56 | |
So, I install Curse Client to see what the deal is.
It installs an addon that, as far as I can remember, it never asked permission to install. At least it wasn't Weatherbug, I guess. Author > User.
Last edited by Rendus : 04-14-09 at 05:36 AM. |
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04-14-09, 05:38 AM | #57 |
I acutally have to laugh at those who whine and moan that their guildies can't/won't update their AddOns if they don't have WoWMatrix. Why? Because I am known as the mod guru in my guild and I have persuaded my entire guild (A guild of about 400 odd players that range from clueless to total geeks), to NOT use WM. Instead most use either the Curse Client or they manually update. I have assisted in this effort by providing stable links to the AddOns we use on our forums. Those links only goto the AddOn's download page so my guildies will see the site's adverts (WoWI and Curse are one of a handful of site whom I allow to show adverts) and the donation button. I don't deep link directly to the file itself. I have in the past on really bad patch days, thrown together a quick AddOn pack and hosted it on Curse. Once the patch day had blown over, I would remove the mod pack as most of my guild mates had download it or did their own manual download. I did all the support on those mods in those AddOn packs, however I don't create AddOn packs anymore as both Curse and WoWI have put the infrastructure in place to handle Patch Day. Instead now I focus on actual UIs with quite a bit of custom code.
It's really not difficult to get a guild to update their mods without WM. If a guild member can't update without WM then that just speaks of pure laziness on the part of the player. My guild can't use the excuse of too busy to update as we are all working adults yet we still get our AddOn updates done without the use of WM and still have to time make another Sarth 3d run. Authors have a number of incentives to control where their AddOns are distributed. These include things like centralized bug tracking systems (either via comments on Curse/WoWI or the ticket system used on CurseForge/WoWAce. Other incentives include easy donation pages and eventually on Curse, Author Rewards. As an artist and author myself, I want to control where my works are distributed from. WM and alternate download sites beyond the ones I have authorized do not benefit me in any way and in fact hurt me as I can't keep track of what is going with my work. Sure my one WoW AddOn is pretty old (it no longer works with WoW), however I am thinking of the future as I do have some projects in the works.
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Last edited by Zyonin : 04-14-09 at 05:45 AM. |
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04-14-09, 05:44 AM | #58 | |
I updated my addon because the game code changed. Up until today, it didn't need to be changed. To be honest, it didn't even need that; it would have worked just fine had you clicked the "Load out of date addons". Not every addon needs updates, enhancements, and bugfixes. Some do what they are meant to do just fine, so they can go months without any changes. |
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04-14-09, 05:45 AM | #59 | |
Yet earlier I was given grief for intending to do the same thing, minus the rehosting on WOWI. Your compilation and mine are in the same vein, failing to benefit the author in any way. (I could be petty and state that deep linking to a particular addon is depriving WOWI of the ad revenue from views on the front page and search result pages, but that's just being silly ) |
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04-14-09, 05:46 AM | #60 | ||
-edit- I will concede a point here, though. I am using FancyBar, an addon from early 2007, that I haven't found as simple of a replacement for. It does throw errors with some regularity, though. -final edit- Like I said, we're not going to convince the other they're wrong and change their ways here. I just felt the need to provide a counter-point to the backpatting here, and indeed initially I was posting out of sheer frustration - But not from the temporary loss of WowMatrix, and instead the inability to sleep. It's now 5AM, I need to be at work at 7AM, so I'm going to go pretend to sleep and hope the Patch Fairy gives me back Spiritual Attunement in 3.1.1. I'm sure there'll be celebrations that the mighty troll has been vanquished, but I hope people will at least consider (or reconsider) why they release addons in the first place - To be used. I tried more addons because they looked interesting in WowMatrix than I've ever bothered with across WOWI and Curse and WoWAce and CT and so on combined. Most of them sucked. Last edited by Rendus : 04-14-09 at 05:54 AM. |
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WoWInterface » Site Forums » News » WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users |
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