10-07-08, 12:22 PM | #21 | |
It was actually more of an inquiry, asking why I wanted it removed. I explained to them they are circumventing the distribution rights of the sites they're pulling the AddOns from as well as negatively impacting site traffic to the original hosting site(s). They're follow up was a lame duck "Oh, we tried to talk to Zam Network, but they wouldn't respond". Just because they "try" doesn't mean they automatically have the right to distribute the AddOns without consent. For some of the larger, more popular AddOn Authors...removal from WoWMatrix could very well cripple the use of the program all together. What's the point of using it if you have to manually update all the dominant AddOns you use anyway? For me, it was more my disgust with avoid good hosting sites like WoWI. At one point WoWMatrix asked me "Would you prefer your users not have up to date versions of your AddOn?", which came off as a rather rude way of putting it. I simply responded with "Nothing is stopping them from downloading the most recent version from WoWI except their own lazy inability to visit the site that hosts the AddOn, and therefore deserves the traffic". |
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10-07-08, 01:11 PM | #22 |
i agree im a addon make myself and thats why i dont even bother put them up on any site im gunna put on one thsi site b/c i love this site but im gunna wait till they move to there new name
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10-08-08, 08:47 AM | #23 | |
I posted the following over on Blizz's UI and Macros forum, in Recompense's thread on pretty much the same topic.
Thought I'd also post it here too, since I'd love to see some more discussion on possible solutions to the whole issue.
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Cirk's Addons |
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10-08-08, 04:57 PM | #24 | |||
Furthermore, you vastly overestimate how long it takes to keep addons updated without a program to do it for you. Find the addon you use on WoWInterface. Click "Add to Favorites". Now, when there's an update, you'll get an email message with a link to click to directly download the file. It takes all of 10-30 seconds (depending on your connection and your proficiency with your decompression software) to unzip the archive into your addons folder. What addons do you use that are updated so frequently that having to click a link and unzip a file manually are such overwhelming tasks? I use about 150 addons, plus about 100 more libraries, and have never seen this as a problem. Also, you don't need to update. Update if the addon breaks, yes. Update if the addon has a cool new feature, yes. But you don't need to update every day just for the sake of updating.
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10-08-08, 06:10 PM | #25 |
Sorry for going off topic, but does this mean JWoWUpdater is done for?
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Funtoo - Plan 9 - Windows 7 |
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10-08-08, 06:13 PM | #26 |
The issue with WM is less that it steals bandwidth, and more that it steals bandwidth AND turns ad revenue at the same time. I wouldn't fear too much for the freebie updaters.
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10-09-08, 04:10 AM | #27 |
I'm pretty tired debating this topic over @ WoWAce, seems people don't seem to grasp some very basic concepts, such as the right of an author to be able to control where/how his work is been distributed. I think I'll just throw the towel there and embrace the motto: "If you want to control it, then don't release it !".
This does not only apply to WM but other updaters as well, at the very least their authors don't do it for the cash, so I can understand them, despite not agreeing to their methods. The rest is as Tek stated. |
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10-09-08, 11:18 PM | #28 |
Upon logging into Wowmatrix today, it advised me that PhanxChat needed updated.
I thought you've requested that they be removed? |
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10-09-08, 11:32 PM | #29 |
Tid bit
Well the wowmatrix ppl must be reading in here bc i wanted to see what all the fuse was about and well they have made a update that displays the authors now... still not were they get the adddons but the authors are posted on there now
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10-10-08, 12:04 AM | #30 |
So far they've ignored repeated requests to remove my mods from the site/service.
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10-10-08, 01:30 AM | #31 |
Sorry if this sounds a little bit harsh but this is my standpoint as a WoW Addons User:
WoWMatrix is currently the only working Addon Updater for a Mac. For me this is an absolutely free application and it is essential. I challenge you to point me to a Mac application which does the same. There are NO other updaters of this kind - at least I haven't found them after weeks of searching and hours of trying out. I'm using less than 70 Addons but there were times I got more than 10 updates every day. Locating them (they aren't all on the same Addon site), downloading them and unzipping them costs a tremendous amount of time. It costs that much time that I, as a user, value the benefits of WoWMatrix more than any benefits from any single WoW addon. And yes, I have to update every day. This is my user (or customer) feedback. Believe it or ignore it. If you want to remove your addons from the WoWMatrix list, please go ahead (well, you have the right to do so). However, for me this means I'm not going to use your addon any longer. You want me to join your crusade against a free, helpful application? Hm, let me think about this for a moment ... well, no and good luck! Sure I accept the rights of you as an author (I'm a professional programmer myself - I know what I'm talking about). However, I also know that as soon as I put something as 'free to use' into the internet I'm also loosing the control over this. There are ways to fight for your right, like lawyers, but they are expensive. There are other ways like a boycott as you suggest (this is some form of vigilantism) but don't expect that everybody joins your way with a 'Huzzah!", especially if this is linked with drawbacks for them. Btw, I also agree to that what Cirk said. But the question is: How to achieve this? |
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10-10-08, 02:06 AM | #32 |
Some part of me, sometimes wishes that God would rain fire one day on all automatic updaters out there, so we can go back to how things used to be, back when you didn't need to use 1340829348236234 addons to have a "cool" UI, when in reality you weren't using half of them, half the time.
While updaters have been a convenience, ultimately they've made a good deal of users demanding, obnoxious, condescending and with actually no regards to anything else than their little own addon world, a world that would never exist in the first place without authors. So, go ahead and not use our addons. We are probably better off. We are not asking for anyone to join us in our "Crusade" (lol "Crusade"...really), least of all users. Just because something is 'free to use' does not entitle you to act like a freaking *censored* and if you do, then be prepared to receive responses such as this. It's also bad that you are a professional programmer because at the end of the day, you don't really understand jack. |
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10-10-08, 04:53 AM | #33 | |
WoWMatrix's 'business model' is not particularly robust. If the sites it relies on to supply the addons themselves rely on ad revenue to survive and WoWMatrix is essentially taking that revenue away from them, then those sites may (will) fold. If they all do that, WoWMatrix folds as it has nowhere to source its addons. And of course Meldas (for example) will have stopped using the ones that have only one source, which having folded ... you catch my drift. As an addon user (never having written one) Tristanian still has my support (whether you need it or not) because I understand the effort that goes into producing the addons I use and appreciate it. And I do that because I am also a professional programmer!!
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Beth |
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10-10-08, 06:12 AM | #34 | ||||
The re-distribution part is a little bit tricky. I'm pretty sure the Addon authors didn't allow my Firefox-Browser to download (aka re-distribute?) their Addon. The only difference is that by pressing the 'Download'-Button in WoWInterface you are making a deal with WoWInterface, whilst in WoWMatrix when you press the 'Update All' Button you don't (of course you can argue you implicitly do agree to the policies of all involved Addon-Download-Sites at once).
That's an unlikely assumption.
All this while I still use WoWMatrix. |
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10-10-08, 06:38 AM | #35 | |
1) WoWMatrix (in general) doesn't base it's AddOn availability on Author submissions alone (which is should). Any 'ol Joe can ask them to include an AddOn in their distribution base. This is wrong! I (and other authors) gave no one the rights to decide the distribution method(s) for my/our AddOns. If WoWMatrix worked on Author-based submissions alone, I would have much less of a problem with it. As it stands, they've directly stated to me that "People ask for AddOns, and we include it if it's requested". This goes about distribution of the AddOns in an absolutely backwards manner. 2) WoWMatrix circumvents not only Bandwidth & hosting issues, but also does not extend testing/scanning to ensure AddOns are safe. When an author uploads their AddOn to WoWInterface, you get a notice after hitting "submit" telling you that it will not be immediately available because Devs on the site scan/view the general contents of the AddOn to ensure there's nothing dangerous being uploaded to their server. This takes time, effort, and one can argue funding to make sure every AddOn uploaded is looked at and confirmed to be safe for distribution. WoWMatrix leeches this security and simply distributes the content at the expense of other sites security measures. I think we all know there are less-than-safe sites out there to get AddOns...myself being a victim of a bad Curse & WoWUI a few years back. What guarantee does WoWMatrix provide that ensures that -all- content it distributes is safe? Not cool...if you ask me. 3) The circumventing of bandwidth and hosting alone is enough to put up a fuss. But the fact that they do it "on top of" the things listed above "as well as" with no immediate contribution to the sites they leech, or any effort to identify them makes it worse. They are parasitic in nature and they don't go about it in a positive way. You can create scripts, and other manners of multi-site updating your AddOns and that's fine. It doesn't make WoWMatrix "A.O.K." for what they do. I see a lot of "supporters" of WoWMatrix still agreeing to a lot of problems the Authors have with it's distribution methods. It boggles me that people don't understand that WoW AddOns are an "author based community" that directly receives it's contributions from willing authors to release their work that they've provided their own time, effort, and creativity for free. It's disheartening to see a bunch of AddOns users band together in support of something that a lot of authors directly feel is unjust to their work, and do so without considering the fact that they wouldn't have the AddOns in the first place if the authors hadn't put as much effort in creating and maintaining them. The authors choice in distribution is what matters, and it's the rule that should be followed...regardless of how you feel you should be allowed to update your AddOns. Don't bite the hand that feeds... |
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10-10-08, 08:44 AM | #36 | ||
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Beth |
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10-10-08, 02:04 PM | #37 |
Reading this discussion I notice a disturbing trend.
Proponents of WoWMatrix seem to feel they have a right to convenient updates. You do not. You have no right to my or any other authors work whatsoever. You do however have the privilege of using that work. Does this mean that I or any other author doesn't care how you feel or what you want? Certainly not. Heck the reason QuestHelper is on this site is because enough people requested it that I decided to keep it up to date here as well. However just because something makes things slightly easier for you does not make it good or even OK. Now if you want something like this, the correct way of going about it is to let someone know! Start a petition at all the interface sites! Sites already recognize that there is a desire for auto updating addons, which is why the Curse Client exists (as I understand it WoWI has something similar). If enough people are asking for a cross updater, WoWI and Curse will likely decided its profitable to get together and develop one. Heck one of the proponents of WoWMatrix claimed to be a programmer (though he showed a frightening disregard for copyright law). To you I say, if something like this is that important to you, by all means start a site that does it properly! Write your own updater and ask for the authors permission to include their addon. If your going to use someone else's bandwidth (which if done properly is not a bad thing) ask for help in ensuring you don't hurt their revenue. I have dealt with the WoWI devs before and am quite certain that they would be more than helpful to anyone wanting to do something like this properly. Provide links to the original authors page. Don't hide where it comes from. As I stated before, WoWMatrix redistributing addons without the authors consent is illegal. Period. There is no arguing with that and to do so is foolish. Just because the authors aren't going to sue them (You think I have that kind of money?), and because copyright law does not allow us to do so if they remove the material on request, does not change the fact that it is illegal redistribution of a copyrighted work. |
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10-10-08, 03:02 PM | #38 |
10-10-08, 03:19 PM | #39 |
10-10-08, 03:22 PM | #40 | |||
If the author says "do not redistribute", yet the site does so, then that is between the author, and the site, however it is NOT illegal to do, unless the author has SPECIFICALLY obtained copyrights and patents for each mod they have designed. The "If you design it, it is copyrighted" excuse is lame, and has been ruled against so many times it's not funny. If you WANT your work to be known only as your work, then COPYRIGHT it, legally.
When it comes down to it, they are doing something wrong in the sense that they are taking other's bandwidth, but that's not their problem. If the download isn't properly protected, hey, it's out there for the world to take. If the download IS properly protected, then everything is good. |
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WoWInterface » General Discussion » Chit-Chat » Why WowMatrix is bad. |
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