Addon Devleoper Interviews

[Aprikot]

In the spirit of Ketho's list I was curious about the most popular UI compilations on WoWInterface:

• LUI: 646,151
• SpartanUI: 316,199
• Roth UI: 251,670
• Caith UI: 191,852
• ElvUI (Tukui-based): 179,672

(Tukui, including user edits, is pretty popular, but not available for download here on WoWI.)

These numbers suggest to me that, while compilations are much less popular than certain individual AddOns, 100% replacement of Blizzard's UI graphics is a popular compilation attribute. (No sh*t )

[Cladhaire]

Feel free to contact me off-thread. I won't do interviews via RealID, but I'm happy to do them via Google Talk/MSN/AIM/etc. I'm available @gmail.com and @wowinterface.com.

[timmerino]

Wow! Thank you for compiling all of that data Ketho! Do you mind if I use it in my paper?

And I'll shoot you an email in a bit, Cladhaire. I look forward to chatting with you!

(Thanks for the heads-up, Aprikot.)

Originally Posted by Ketho To give a quick insight on this particular discussion: I've imported the data from the 200 most downloaded WoWInterface AddOns, and I conclude the following

Originally Posted by Cladhaire Feel free to contact me off-thread. I won't do interviews via RealID, but I'm happy to do them via Google Talk/MSN/AIM/etc. I'm available @gmail.com and @wowinterface.com.

[Shadowed]

I'm also available, but like cladhaire, MSN/GT/AIM are better, I can PM you info if you're interested.

Originally Posted by Ketho To give a quick insight on this particular discussion: I've imported the data from the 200 most downloaded WoWInterface AddOns, and I conclude the following: The sum of the top 200 most downloaded WoWI addons is 102,009,814 The top 10 authors account for roughly half of the WoWI total downloads with 29 AddOns (51,800,477 = 50.8%) [/size]AddOn downloads paste: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/148005 Author downloads paste: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/148006 Disclaimer: The information showed can be incomplete/faulty, since it's only gathered from the top 200 most downloaded WoWInterface AddOns. Authors could also take over each other's addons, and/or work in teams/groups. Some AddOns, e.g. Fubar, are abandoned/"end of line". Curse definitely has different statistics/environment, but I couldn't import Curse's downloads information ><

I only got #24, sad

[timmerino]

Disclaimer: The information showed can be incomplete/faulty, since it's only gathered from the top 200 most downloaded WoWInterface AddOns. Authors could also take over each other's addons, and/or work in teams/groups. Some AddOns, e.g. Fubar, are abandoned/"end of line". Curse definitely has different statistics/environment, but I couldn't import Curse's downloads information ><

Oh, sorry, I didn't notice this disclaimer. I'll be sure to compare it with the numbers on Curse.

On a related note, I was surprised to find that "Recount" recently surpassed "DBM" on Curse as the most downloaded AddOn. What do you all think about this development?

[timmerino]

Originally Posted by Shadowed I only got #24, sad

Aw, lol! Well, I would still be happy to interview you!

Yes, by all means, any IM service is fine. PM me with whichever you prefer.

[timmerino]

Originally Posted by Aprikot These numbers suggest to me that, while compilations are much less popular than certain individual AddOns, 100% replacement of Blizzard's UI graphics is a popular compilation attribute. (No sh*t )

Yes, I've noticed this too, and, from what I understand, in China compilations are much more popular. In fact I've heard that it's relatively difficult to download stand-alone AddOns in China.

I've never actually used a compilation before, but I have talked with players who use them and like them a lot. They seem to appreciate the aesthetic unity of a compilation. What do you think are some of the pros and cons of compilations vs. stand-alone AddOns from a player and/or a developer perspective?

[Xinhuan]

Originally Posted by timmerino Oh, sorry, I didn't notice this disclaimer. I'll be sure to compare it with the numbers on Curse. On a related note, I was surprised to find that "Recount" recently surpassed "DBM" on Curse as the most downloaded AddOn. What do you all think about this development?

DBM has their own website (http://www.deadlybossmods.com/) and host alpha/beta versions of their addon there. People go there directly to download the latest code with, for example, slightly fixed timers for various bosses, especially the latest BWD boss timers. Recount on the other hand, hosts alpha/betas directly on wowace/curse.

Gatherer and a number of other addons (for eg, Atlas) also have their own dedicated websites, thus you need to take into account these factors.

You also need to decide between counting an addon's "user install base" which is X amount of users installed this on their PC, versus "Y amount of downloads", which is a number that only counts downloads, so if AddonM released a new update every 2 days, it would attract more downloads. X is measurable only by Curse Client data (which is what my top 12 authors on Curse approxs half the downloads, if you only count 1 user downloading exactly once, and obviously only counts Curse Client users), while Ketho's damage is based on Y. I am unsure if either site shows or counts Y on multiple downloads from the same IP address. You need to research/figure that out, and not blindly use numbers.

You can also email me about an interview.

Edit: My email is @pacific.net.sg

[Cladhaire]

Originally Posted by Ketho lol, I didn't know that Cladhaire is James Whitehead aka jnwhiteh I was suspecting though .. Edit: oh nvm ><

I never got around to changing my username on the sites. The name I've always used (previously) in the technology and programming world is indeed 'jnwhiteh'. When WoW first came out and the community was first coming together in the official WoW forums, we had to use our characters to post and my first main was a rogue named 'Cladhaire'. By the time I had moved onto my priest, I had enough work out that it didn't make sense to try and change my name.. so I've been living a bit of a double life!

[sigg]

I think the requests of users have changed. Today People want more Out of the box stuff. I will try to resume my thought:

Integration.
Users are looking for integrated UI and this is the reason of the success of Tukui, nUI and Compilations. Using a base UI, users can add a raid frames, a damage meter, any other addons etc. But Today, People prefered to reduce the number of addons.

Adaptation.
The possibility to switch all the user interface depend of if you are a healer, a tanker or because you change your spec. I know some people have two or three installation of WoW, with differents addons, different configurations.

Customization and Simplicity.
More the list of customization option are big, more you loose in simplicity. These two words are opposite in fact. For example, you can do what you wish with oUF, but you have to learn LUA. Some authors prefer to limit the customization and their addon is easier to use. The goal is to find the right middle between customization and simplicity.

I am not agree with Xinhuan when he say the golden age of addons is over and there is no more innovative stuff. This is more because you are staying in the world of Ace. Ace did never evolute and is still in version 3.

I want to highlight RDX 8, the addon I am responsible. RDX 8 is about to be the new golden age. Just spend 15 minutes to test it and you will be like all these people who PM me or send me a email, explaining their surprise and congratulating the job done. You will understand the concept.

To install:

RDX core and mediapack:
http://www.wowinterface.com/download...7-OpenRDX.html
http://www.wowinterface.com/download...MediaPack.html

RDX Theme: (Download and install them all)
http://www.wowinterface.com/download...3-OlokAUI.html
http://www.wowinterface.com/download...XenoraAUI.html

A quick tutorial has been integrated at startup of RDX.

For any questions, you can use our RDX section here on WoWI.

The final version is coming soon with so many more theme.

Cheers

[hankthetank]

I'm sure he wants to make that subject of his work. How RDX heralds the start of the new golden age of addon development with all its awesome.

[Xinhuan]

Originally Posted by sigg I am not agree with Xinhuan when he say the golden age of addons is over and there is no more innovative stuff. This is more because you are staying in the world of Ace. Ace did never evolute and is still in version 3.

The thing though, is RDX is just 1 innovative addon. When I say golden age, I mean in general that there is a lot of innovation and new stuff going on. While RDX is good and all, its just one of the very few bright spots of development remaining.

In the past, my buffer couldn't even hold 1 day of commits on #wowuidev-commits, but nowadays, I can read up to 3 days worth.

[Mischback]

Wow, I didn't realised this thread was for shameless self-advertisement. May I throw my hat into the ring or something?

Number of downloads can't proof anything, because it is not the amount of users. It *can* be a tendency, but I would not consider it a "scientific" fact.

[Cladhaire]

I'm not sure if wowinterface has the information, but if you did number of downloads for each version, you'd have a much better idea of the number of 'users' or trends for a given addon. Curse has a similar problem in that it only counts those who use the Curse Client, which isn't everyone. Looking at the two sites together does give you a good view, however.

[hankthetank]

I can't really see how there was a golden age of addon development at such a random point of time as "1-2 years ago". When I'm reminiscing about the time of my first raids in MC I think I basicly had everything that I have now. Sure since DamageMeters or KTM things have evolved. Naturally new features are coming and code gets more efficient but the concepts were already there or even worse they were not. Even without a taint system there wasn't so much groundbreaking stuff out there because back then development was more decentralised and painstaking as coding standards and libraries weren't as established as today. That's no surprise, the game was new and no one really cared about a fully modded interface. When WoWAce went big and it has been made easier to put ideas into action was there any new groundbreaking stuff? Well yes, but not more than before or after that point for most of the existing ideas were just ported or improved. Today it's more about standardization. Try to establish a new boss mod and you will most likely fail. So people focus more on the looks and isolating those features of big addons that they really need (think of Prat at the time vs the billion of chat mods out there now) mainly because the standard UI has been significantly imroved itself over the years. I don't have more or less moment these days where I see a new addon and think "Wow, thats clever" than 2 years ago.

[Mischback]

I would approve, what hank said...

When I remember my "starting with addons" it was "MetaMap". Just because it provided some information/features, that I liked.

When I got started with "styling" my UI, it was Perl and then Pitbull. Today I'm trying to create aestetically mathing UIs with a mixture of oUF-layouts and "self and only for me written"-addons which are styled the same way. There is no ground-breaking thing ever.

I often tend to say: "I'm good at tanking, because my UI is optimised for this task, I see everything I need to see when I need to see." But on the other hand, there's a girl in my guild which uses only two addons: Healbot and DBM and she is performing extraordinary well.
So I conclude it is a matter of "getting used to" and "choose what you really need".
I'm proud to say that I haven't used AtlasLoot throughout WotLK, but running PUG-raids make me very sure, this is the only addon some guys use.

It will be very difficult to measure the impact of addons on the game.
As a matter of fact, Blizzard included some cool stuff into their game, which first was provided through addons, thinking of MoveAnything or perhaps the new, grid-style raidframes.

On the other side, the UFs haven't change, but in MY eyes they're just bad in terms of functionality and they are not fitting my personal sense of beauty (talking about player/target/focus).

I don't really get, what is the focus of your work, but you will have to make sure to ask more people than the addon-communities here or elsewhere, just because the people in this coms are just "mad on addons", we're using them where we could. But we're not representative for the whole community of WoW-players, who will only use a very distinguished sort/amount of addons.

I somehow got lost... Could I make any point of sense?

[Xinhuan]

That's the thing. The setting up of wowace and wowinterface were huge factors that allowed WoW addon programming in general to flourish, to have a forum of discussion. In particular, I want to mention the WowAceUpdater (WAU), it made addon updating so easy that much more users were willing to try out modding. That and the fact addon hosting sites went up, caused addons to be used widespread.

"A golden age is often ascribed to the years immediately following some technological innovation. It is during this time that writers and artists ply their skills to this new medium."

It wasn't just about "new and groundbreaking addons", it is also about the technology and other factors that made it possible.

[Shadowed]

Originally Posted by Xinhuan That's the thing. The setting up of wowace and wowinterface were huge factors that allowed WoW addon programming in general to flourish, to have a forum of discussion. In particular, I want to mention the WowAceUpdater (WAU), it made addon updating so easy that much more users were willing to try out modding. That and the fact addon hosting sites went up, caused addons to be used widespread. "A golden age is often ascribed to the years immediately following some technological innovation. It is during this time that writers and artists ply their skills to this new medium." It wasn't just about "new and groundbreaking addons", it is also about the technology and other factors that made it possible.

I'd have to lean to agreeing with Xinhuan.

Originally Posted by sigg I think the requests of users have changed. Today People want more Out of the box stuff. I will try to resume my thought: Integration. Users are looking for integrated UI and this is the reason of the success of Tukui, nUI and Compilations. Using a base UI, users can add a raid frames, a damage meter, any other addons etc. But Today, People prefered to reduce the number of addons. Adaptation. The possibility to switch all the user interface depend of if you are a healer, a tanker or because you change your spec. I know some people have two or three installation of WoW, with differents addons, different configurations. Customization and Simplicity. More the list of customization option are big, more you loose in simplicity. These two words are opposite in fact. For example, you can do what you wish with oUF, but you have to learn LUA. Some authors prefer to limit the customization and their addon is easier to use. The goal is to find the right middle between customization and simplicity. I am not agree with Xinhuan when he say the golden age of addons is over and there is no more innovative stuff. This is more because you are staying in the world of Ace. Ace did never evolute and is still in version 3. I want to highlight RDX 8, the addon I am responsible. RDX 8 is about to be the new golden age. Just spend 15 minutes to test it and you will be like all these people who PM me or send me a email, explaining their surprise and congratulating the job done. You will understand the concept.

Saying Ace 'still' at version is silly, 3 was a major shift from 2 that's still had some improvements and fixes made. There isn't a need for a 4 because 3 does everything fine and didn't have a lot of the issues that 2 did.

RDX 8 addon you linked doesn't look like it's anything exactly new. Maybe you make some improvements over existing addons, but RDX itself is quite old, and nothing you added into it at a quick glance is a "new golden age"

[hankthetank]

Originally Posted by Xinhuan It wasn't just about "new and groundbreaking addons", it is also about the technology and other factors that made it possible.

Originally Posted by Xinhuan Although at this stage of WoW in its 6th year of maturity, the "golden age" of addons have passed about 1-2 years ago, there's very little that hasn't already been done on the addon scene

Ok so your standpoint now is that you look on the technological advancement behind addon development and its execution as two different aspects which your previous statement implied otherwise to me. If that is your position the development evolution if you will was moot as it didn't help to create new concepts. I totally agree with you that most things have been done already, so you can't expect a new AVR every week. But imo the fact that now you have so much more collected knowledge to access, it is easier to build upon existing libraries and the expertise of the typical users who play the game for a long time is advancing as well gives opportunity to more output for the addon community. This of course is a consequence of the the provision of knowledge via growing communities and frameworks what you call the golden age. But my point is that the same things have been done over and over again. So if you want to create something new now would be the best time and so I'm happy to develop addons after your definition of the golden age and it's everything but sad that this time has passed. I'll leave it at that.

[Tuller]

I agree with Xinhuan as far as a timeframe for the golden age. It corresponds roughly to the time when I was in college until after I graduated and got a full time job.

I also think that WoWAce's transition to Curse was a big contributor to the end of it.