Outfitter 

And therefore it's a good thing that the new provisions don't ban an author from soliciting or receiving Donations entirely. They are still very much allowed to do so on their own websites, or even on sites like this one, if those sites allow it. If you feel inclined to give generously, there's still an avenue to do so.

What Authors aren't allowed to do is use the addon itself in any way to force or solicit people to pay for it, either by obfuscating code, or by way of "nagware".


As to the matter of "stealing" code, Blizzard wants this open source. We could sit here and argue back and forth about he philosophy of opening the source code, but I'll go as far as to say it's one of the things that makes it possible for another author to pick up an abandoned addon. It also protects you, the user by preventing an author from burying perhaps less savory things in their code without your knowledge.

In any case, no one "owns" these things at present, and by way of the same logic you expressed to be about using or not using an addon depending on the presence of ads or nagware in it, I can say the same thing about authoring addons:

If you don't like the idea of not "owning" it, best not to start making them, or if you do, keep them to yourself. Otherwise, pay the piper because it's one of the steps of the dance.

Well I don't agree with paying for addons. It completely ridiculous. I don't think it should be completely banned(though I'm not exactly sad about it..I wouldn't pay for one any way) but I think it should just not exist. This whole thing is completely based off greed. Greed greed and more greed. Waawaa I'm blizz I only get 15 million dollars a month, now these people are making money while I'm making money lets stop them.

Asking for donations however is not bad (unless its like SPAMSPAMSPSMASPSMASPMASPASMSPMASPMPSAMPASMPAMS...you get the idea)

But regulating the content and what not is just stupid. I don't know a whole lot about addon making but I'm assuming most people obfuscate their code to make sure other jerks don't steal their code and tag it with their own name and claim it as their own (Kinda reminds me of blizzard..cept with ideas).

Blizzard is of course well in their right to do what ever they please, doesn't make it right though. :-/

And that is exactly why I can't say I disagree much with this decision. Because given an inch, a lot of people will go the extra mile.

If it weren't for the fact that much of the businesses that have grown up around WoW purporting to supply WoW-related services didn't carry themselves in such reprehensible ways, perhaps such measures wouldn't be necessary.

As an end user who doesn't write addons, but has used Outfitter for a very long time, I am sorry to see it pass away. But I do respect mundocani's decision, even if I don't agree with it.

I know a couple of casual players who paid for some levelling addons to maximize their time efficiency when power levelling; money they had, time they didn't. They then got ripped off completely by the company releasing a "new" version and requiring extra payment every time to add in stuff that was missing when they did the previous version. Almost every case of someone charging for an addon that I have heard about has been a scam, or at least felt like they were trying to get as much out of their customers as they could. I understand Blizzard wanting to stop this.

That being said, I understand that not all people who charge for addons are bad. I also realize that most features you want from charged addons can be got from free ones.

I don't fully agree that Blizzard are trying to get the addon authors to do their development for them. There are general many mods that do the same thing, all slightly differently. When Blizz just add a feature a lot of people complain about how they do it, with addons people can try the different options and Blizz can see what people like and what they don't without shoving an untested idea down the throats of their users. Addons help make WoW a well developed game as much as they make up for stuff Blizz doesn't do well.

Now that 3.1 has built in scripts for ItemSets, I was hoping that I would see Outfitter change to be even smaller and more efficient as it did all it's handling without the need for all the item swapping code. However it looks like this will not be the case.

Anyway. I am sorry to see Outfitter go, but I understand that mundocani is upset about this, and I respect his decision to act on that. Thank you for all the hard work you have done for us, and I wish you well.

It's a shame to see such a nice addon go, although I do respect your choice.

Leads me to the following question: i have a compilation of addons, which does include Outfitter. Do you want it removed immediately or is it ok to remove it after 3.1 hits?

I could stop using that addon. Doesn't stop the problem of Blizzard allowing third party ads in their game for those that are using it- and that is, really, what they are trying to do. I can't blame them.

The fact that I don't have to get pelted with ads is a pleasent side-effect I can't say I disagree with.

As for the matter of taking them out, if certain authors obfuscate their code (another provision the new policies strictly prohibit) as Carbonite has done, average Joe lua coder may find that difficult to do. And considering it's Carbonite that pretty much put Blizzard to the screws about this, well, you can see where this is going.

If you don't like the ads in game you could either stop using that addon(or change around the LUA and take the ads out) or get another similar one with out the ads.

Blizzard taking amazing ideas from authors (not ones asking for payment) is completely ridiculous. They have done it many many times now. Group calendar, outfitter, Talented, Wintertime(and several other similar addons) and who knows what else I know nothing about. They even tried to replace ventrilo with the worst quality in game voice chat I've ever seen.(well..heard...)

They do it terribly. I almost never use the in game calendar. All I use it for is to see when the next holiday is. Group calendar had far more functionality. Now we get to see them horribly mangle another good addon with their terrible version of it.

Mundocani quitting wow would accomplish nothing (other then giving him some free time) blizzard wouldn't care in the least, especially now that they have taken his addons and made their own malformed versions of them. He isn't going to make addons because he doesn't enjoy it any more and dislikes being treated like a simple slave who gives their master good ideas so they can take credit for them with not even the least bit of a thank you. Which really has nothing to do with the video game itself just its creator. He still enjoys playing the game(I'd assume).

Not sure I see the irony, given that a central part of Mundocani's argument is that Blizzard assimilates addon authors' work and offers nothing in return- and of course additionally that it prohibits authors from gettign anything in return.

And who here really thinks that the Blizzard default equipment managment is going to be able to do anything near the number of things an addon like outfitter or itemrack does? So the "not adding anything unique to the addon community" argument is also fulla holes.

Granted, I don't agree with Mundocani's statement. I can't condone a policy that potentially allows me and other users to get pelted with ads nagging me to pay for things- either the addon I downloaded or possibly other things. And the suggestion that Blizzard is attempting to bar authors from any sort of compensation is a bit misleading- they aren't. They don't want third-party ads in their game, and that's a stance I can agree with.

That said, your own statement doesn't really amount to much.

Blizzard did say you can ask contribution on your own web site


but yes, you can't make money thanks to wow.

to sell addons is to earn money on the back of blizzard.

without wow, never I would use "wow addons", so, by definition yes, a paid addon is possible because there are a World of warcraft.

and Blizzard is not a provider of a free market. Blizzard didn't create wow for some people can earn money on its back.

I suppose, one day, Blizzard will accept to sell license to create paid addons to wow. But I don't think so. They want to promote the idea you pay just ONE subscription and extensions(one time) and you can play ALL world of warcraft video game without never to pay something more.

They want that to be simple.

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it's Carbonite who forced them to be clear on it but it was apparent in developpers talk from years.

They are against pay for money in game items, or pay for money in game helps (powerlevelling, money and so on) because they want the whole game to be fair.

All people pay the same and they got the same. They explained that. So from that, you could deduce : no tools to be better, no powerlevelling, no addons with better interface thanks to money, no.

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many thanks for your wonderful addons. I will give some $ by paypal, but I think you are deeply wrong here. Please think back a little about what is at stake if it's really why you are angry.

I could think you should be angry for the whole new features (equipment manager and calendar) added to the game after years of your work. not for a logical policy from blizzard.

While everyone is entitled to their own opinion and actions, I do find it ironic that the author of 2 addons that blizzard is/has replaced with their own ingame functionality (ie: the calendar and the upcoming 3.1 equipment manager) is the first to pull their mods from development in protest of the "cant charge money" policy. Would be a bigger statement if it came from a mod author who still gave the community noticeable functionality that blizzard has yet to implement on their own.

What's to "finalize"? It works in the versions people already have. The final version is the last version he produced, and those that downloaded it last have it, those that lost it can get a replacement.

There's really nothing more for him to do here. Choose to accept the olive branch and apology or don't, as is your right to do.


Mundocani, would you tell Vytae here that you acknowledge that there is more than one way to show your disapproval to Blizzard, but this happens to be the way you prefer to do so at your next opportunity?

I know this is already implicit in most of the stuff you've said, but some people need it stated really clearly to them, apparently. That you know: their preferred way of showing disapproval might not be yours.

Thanks man.

I didn't say continue developing.. I said finalize it and cancel his account in protest.

you know as well as I do I am referring to screwing up the download on this site without warning anyone. It was done in a hasty manner without thinking of the ramifications of his actions because he was angry with blizzard and leaving those who use the addon in a lurch.
Did he try to rectify his previous "dumbass attack"? Sure did but some(albeit a very small minority) will see it as a too little to late attempt. Life goes on

He chose to stop developing it because he is blaming blizzard's new UI policy and that's fine by me.. but don't say there is only one way to show disapproval when it has been pointed out that there was more than the halfhearted way he did it.. if you're pissed at blizz tell them by saving money each month and cancel your account. Yeah you may think it doens't amount to much in their wallet but your wallet will surely see an improvement in funds.

But alas we can agree to disagree on a variety of things and while this is a great debate/conversation/arguement we are having.. I need to go do some things in game

Mundocani,

Appreciate all of your efforts thus far and can only hope that one of the variables changes and that you return to the upkeep of Outfitter.

Know that there are many who use, like, and do appreciate your efforts.

Best of luck,

Nikk

What? Quitting WoW and going on to develop the addon anyway? That option sounds kinda senseless. Why maintain an addon for a game you don't play?

Or was it leaving a working copy behind and just ceasing to develop it as he said he would?

Because while he isn't quitting WoW, the addon still functions, for now (though it probably won't at the next patch, as many have indicated). And he has offered to provide working versions to those who may have lost it in this morning's screw up.

If I'm not reading it, it's because it's what he's already done, man. Not really sure what you're having an issue with here...



You mean it's okay to stop developing an addon he previously chose to develop on the merits of little more than his own free will and enjoyment at any time and without warning?

Yes. Yes it is okay for him to do that. What's more, he doesn't even really need a reason. And certainly plenty of addons just get abandoned without one. Be thankful he had the courtesy to say that much.

It makes it all better for me. Again, I'm not really certain what you're carrying on about. the only thing he could possibly do differently from what he already is doing is just up and keep making this addon just to please us.

I guess you can find cause to blame him for that. I can't.

No, he chose to stop developing it. He even said so.

O_o

Funny, I am not forcing him to do anything.. I am guessing nobody is reading the other alternative that was given as a way out instead of doing what he saw as the only option... what's done is done

As for blame: I suppose it's ok for him to do what he did at the time he did it because he disagreed with blizzard's new policy? Now that he has made an attempt to fix those he crapped on in his fit of anger makes it all better? Bygones be Bygones, water under the bridge, etc..
So I am guessing nobody but blizzard is to blame for his actions? They made him do it.. they forced his hand?